to wonder why the govt are not doing anything about the spiralling cost of living?

[dirtyface]

they are making cuts left right and centre, but IMO are not looking at the bigger picture which is the REAL reason people are so skint. ie because of the cost of living ie food, gas, electric, (my particular bugbear) petrol , housing, local taxation.

this is why people are not spending money on the high street etc. its cos no bugger has got any disposable income after they have been fleeced every month paying for the essentials. i for one spend a good proportion of my earnings on petrol, so does dh and i am sure i speak for many people

obviously i am mostly talking about mr and mrs average joe on average incomes, ie, say min wage to about 30k or so. but am sure the higher earners are squeezed as well esp with them cutting off CB and tax credits etc after a certain income

whats going to happen? is it just going to keep going up and up. it scares me

disclaimer: i don't understand how any of this works so sorry if i sound thick. there is probably some clever obvious reason why "they" cant sort the cost of living out a bit

Noobie, tbh, the problem isn't the politicians in local govt, because no matter who changes at the top, the staff stay the same underneath. Got a useless idiot working in one team? Promote him to get him out of there! Need a new manager? Let's see, you could recruit someone who can actually manage and has a proven track record elsewhere, or you could pick someone you've known for years on the basis that he (and it is almost invariably a he) has an engineering degree, so obviously that qualifies him to be a manager. Try a new idea or carry on doing things the way you've always done them? But hey, let's buy all the senior managers iPads for meetings which they don't know how to turn on. Got to move with the times, don't you know.

Right noobie

Our boiler should be in a museum!

LadyClariceCannockMonty, I was thinking of young, unemployed people who are still living at home. There's quite a few people in this situation round here, but they won't take the crappy jobs when doing so might actually help them out further down the road.

It's disgusting that these companies get away with using immigrants as cheap labour and get them to pay their own tax and national insurance. That should be stopped.

The thing is, Paul, that's anecdotal and based on a very few people. There are people who have to pay rent/mortgages/look after children and struggle because they're on zero hours contracts.

Perhaps these people you know of could try harder, but I don't think we shouldn't have decent pay and employment regulations just because of a few people possibly playing the system.

Well, for what its worth PaulSmenis, it sounds as though these companies are breaking the law, if they're making non-self employed people claim to be self-employed.

tax credits do cause havoc, but I don't see how you can get rid of them without plunging many families well below any liveable poverty line?

Harping back to the 'good old days', in 1996 I earnt £12k my husband earnt roughly the same, we brought a house for £32k, this was a 2 bed terrace with a small garden, perfectly roomy for a family of 2 adults and 2 small children. We moved house in 2002 and that house sold for £149k! In this time our wages had increased so h (now xh) was earning £26k and I was earning £16k part time, but we were now entitled to tax credits, only a small amount but still something.

We divorced and I was a single parent of 4 dc, initially I was on income support and received tax credits as well, once my youngest was 4 months old I went back to work, 25 hours a week and earnt £12k, I received more in tax credits than I did in earnt salary as well as receiving a substantial part of my rent paid (had to move into rented after the divorce s no deposit and my share of the equity still being fought over). Don't get me wrong things were still tough, after food shopping gas electric water etc I had barely enough left over for food. But My point regarding tax credits is that when my mums friends were in the same position hey had extra part time jobs, they went out cleaning, waitressing etc alongside their day jobs to earn the extra cash needed, but then these types of jobs were easy to come by (my own mum who was a manager in a bank and my dad who had his own company, both worked additional jobs, my mum in a chippy 3 evenings a week and my dad twilight shift in a warehouse stacking pallets 5 nights a week), but now a family struggling who receive £100 a week in tax credits and say the same again in housing benefit, they cant go and get another job to get more money. until they earn in the additional job more than they receive in top up benefits, virtually every extra penny they earn is taken off of their top up benefits, essentially leaving them unable to help themselves out of the trap?

the trouble is that because there it is an employers market then they can get away with exploiting the youngsters and treating them badly.

we have come a long way over the centuries and do we want our dc's to be treated badly by their employers. It is much easier to exploit someone who is not familiar with our laws and has to work as there is nothing at home for them. whereas at least the youngsters have families to support them most of the time.

They're not making them self employed, they are already self employed. This isn't illegal, just the cheapest way round it for a smallish business.

It's all the money, as Jessie would say.

The business gets most of its work from schools and local authority buildings.

*all about the money as Jessie would say

Dontletthemfetyou, that's why we should massively increase the minimum wage and remove tax credits. Tax credits enable low wages and only the employer reaps the benefit. It would mean fewer jobs for a while, but there would be just as much money circulating, however it would be going to the treasury and the employees rather than to Tescos and Amazon. We are selling ourselves too cheaply for the sake of global competition.

The earlier comparison between unskilled labour in Asia and the UK was really interesting. It does make sense in a globalised economy.

How does this correlate with in the increase in executive pay though? If it's such a scramble to produce goods at a low cost the maximise profits, why does so much end up I senior management's pockets, there is now a huge gap between what a senior executive earns and that if middle management and workforce lower down the scale.

Even in the public sector we see payoffs of nearly £1M -extra- of taxpayers money given to someone at the BBC. All the while we are being told to tighten belts, what about immigrants, what about benefits claimants etc etc - but so many people seem to be able to afford to live these extravagant lifestyles.

Are we really saying we can't provide food, heat housing for ordinary people because we can't afford it?

You think it's rough now? One day, in the not too distant future, interest rates are going to start to go up - just a 1% rise will cause carnage.

LadyClariceCannockMonty, I heartily agree with you that these zero hour contracts are useless for anyone who responsibilities like rent, mortgages or children. It is a real problem that needs sorting out asap.

Sorry about the annecdotal evidence! It's just an observation, but on reflection, it's probably got something to do with parents. Maybe they just haven't given their kids a big enough kick up the arse.

LadyClariceCannockMonty, I heartily agree with you that these zero hour contracts are useless for anyone who responsibilities like rent, mortgages or children. It is a real problem that needs sorting out asap.

Sorry about the annecdotal evidence! It's just an observation, but on reflection, it's probably got something to do with parents. Maybe they just haven't given their kids a big enough kick up the arse.

ohmymimi , sorry to be thick, but what kind of carnage can we expect?

Just read the first three pages and this page ...and agree with most of the points people make... and also:

What riles me mainly is that all the anti-benefitism in the media disguises the bigger problems of tax evasion by the wealthy and the mega wealthy. Why doesn't Cameron seriously address that instead of just paying lip service?

Also ... I still feel bitter and twisted that the wbankers were never brought to account, and it's their fault that the national debt is spiralling for the sky.

It's not just the bankers. No one in authority is ever brought to account.

Look at the line-up of highly paid BBC staff we saw yesterday who couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery and had, it appears, been gifting large amounts of tax-payers money to their friends.

Doubt a single one of the will lose their jobs over this.

Ubik, the big payouts are based on agreements and rules made decades ago and you can't reneg on them. What I find sad is that people don't hand some of it back. People are simply greedy. The BBC had deals they couldn't break too, but because of the nature of the industry couldn't keep people working their notice. It sounds like corruption but keeping people there who could have broken confidentiality etc would be risky.

The bankers did what they did BECAUSE THEY COULD.

No - the payments in many cases exceeded the contractual agreements - that's the whole point.

The BBC dished out additional dosh without proper authority.

I don't buy the 'we had to pay that to keep them working their notice - and neither did Michael Grade when he was talking about it last night.

Failing to work out your notice and breaking confidentiality are breach of contract and disciplinary actions respectively both of which a BBC that was not totally gutless, could have taken against against.

So I really do not see any difference between the BBC and the bankers - both bigging it up with our money.

Paul, yes, I do think that while there needs to be legislation for people to get paid decently and reliably, some individuals do seem to have it easier than others (note 'seem' – I can't know for sure!).

Kicks up the arse are no bad thing. But that does not let industry/government off the hook when it comes to providing decent contracts for people.

Paul, yes, I do think that while there needs to be legislation for people to get paid decently and reliably, some individuals do seem to have it easier than others (note 'seem' – I can't know for sure!).

Kicks up the arse are no bad thing. But that does not let industry/government off the hook when it comes to providing decent contracts for people.

This is a worldwide phenomenon and completely out of control of politicians, so save the Tory/Cameron/Eton bitterness.

The reason is the huge global debt and what all governments are doing is counterfeiting 'quantitive easing'. When they print money, the inflation reduces the amount of debt that needs paying back. The Weimar Republic did this in order to pay back the Versaille treaty reparations.

The old rules - spend carefully, save - have gone out the window.

The people that are getting stung are people with jobs. They pay the most tax and tax is what governments need to pay back this debt and provide services.

The rich really are getting richer and the poor poorer.

I get so angry at the injustice of it all, but don't know what to do.

is 30 k an average wage then

is 30 k an average wage then