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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think that a child who has achieved a level 5 and a chidl who has achieved a level 2 should not be in the same maths set at secondary in year 7

41 replies

ReallyTired · 03/09/2013 20:56

My son has just had his first day at secondary. He tells me that that his year has 3 top sets and 3 bottom sets for maths. He is in one of the bottom sets for maths inspite of getting a level 5 in maths. He is very pleased because he is with his friend who wasn't entered for SATS and is working at level 2. I imagine that at least half the children got a level 5 in their maths in their SATs.

I am concerned that the level of differentiation to stretch such a range of ablity will be impossible. I am really surprised that the school has not chosen to have 6 sets for maths or maybe 3 sets. It seems odd to have two levels of maths classes when the school has 180 children in the year.

OP posts:

mikkii · 03/09/2013 20:59

Perhaps the two gradings are just to allow the school to judge for themselves and readjust the sets after half term?

RandomMess · 03/09/2013 21:01

I wonder if they haven't actually moved them in to the correct sets yet? quite often they ignore the SATS results and get them to sit their own maths test within the first few weeks and then adjust the sets? The low number of sets is probably to do with timetabling and will probably increase over the years.

AnneUulmelmahay · 03/09/2013 21:01

I really think you should wait a bit, see what happens at half term, ime there is a big shuffle of children up and down the streams then.

Dededum · 03/09/2013 21:02

Maybe he has got it wrong?

At my son's school they have two top sets, three middle one and one bottom one. They test all the kids and then move kids around as required.
Lots of movement even much later in the year.

Original poster

ReallyTired · 03/09/2013 21:05

I am not surprised that the school has decided to ignore the SATs results. However if a child was disapplied from SATs then there is absolutely no way that he is going to be able to keep up with the others. Either the chid will be totally at sea and become bored and distruptive or the level 5 children will be taught nothing new.

I feel that if they are going to have so few sets then they need to have tables like primary school. Ds says that he will have a maths test at half temr when everyone has settled in. However 6 weeks is a lot of wasted teaching time.

OP posts:

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 03/09/2013 21:05

I think your son might well have it wrong. It's only the first day. Plus, SATs are notoriously unreliable and the school will want to see/test for themselves

JamieandtheMagicTorch · 03/09/2013 21:06

I think you need to stop worrying about teaching time in the first 6 weeks. The primary aim for the first few weeks is to adjust to the routines of Secondary school

Pozzled · 03/09/2013 21:08

That sounds very strange. The most likely explanation is a misunderstanding on your son's part. It would be unusual for the school to even tell them directly what set they're in. Wait a couple of weeks- I expect the groupings will change.

Nanny0gg · 03/09/2013 21:14

Depends whether they are going to be actively taught maths, or just 'facilitated' to work it out themselves...

sunshinemeg · 03/09/2013 21:15

As a teacher myself we make a point of not telling students about the sets unless they ask as it causes upset for a student if they are in a lower set than they thought.
I would be very surprised if the set system really is 3 top and 3 bottom, there may well be sub sets in there that your son doesn't really understand, or wasn't openly told by his teacher.
The start of school for a year 7 is very much focused on settling them in to new routines, making them feel relaxed and confident, and regularly assessing informally and formally through tests. Try not to worry too much just yet.

Nanny0gg · 03/09/2013 21:20

sunshinemeg - Don't you think they work it out anyway?

They always knew at primary school.

sunshinemeg · 03/09/2013 21:44

Nanny, when you say work it out I assume you mean the class levelling system? I know in my school the coding isn't logical, and they are not openly told it anyway, so it isn't a problem. We used to tell them but found this counterproductive in the long term.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 03/09/2013 21:46

I wouldn't worry until half term: and then if you still think something's not right, find out about it and query if you need to. But try not to worry for now ( easier said than done)

Original poster

ReallyTired · 03/09/2013 21:54

If kids can work out which table they are on in reception/ year 1 then don't you think they can work out which maths group they are in?

"I would be very surprised if the set system really is 3 top and 3 bottom, there may well be sub sets in there that your son doesn't really understand, or wasn't openly told by his teacher."

That does seem likely. My son is very happy with his maths group. It appears that he has been placed with all his friends. It does seem strange to have mix ablity maths groups which aren't form groups.

We have parent's evening on the 19th Sept and I can ask his form tutor.

OP posts:

Pozzled · 03/09/2013 22:26

Eventually, yes, they will work out which set they've been placed in. But not on the first day in a new school when they don't know everyone, and the levels within a 'set' range from 2-5! Which is why I suspect it's mixed-ability and not a 'set' at all at this stage.

Turniptwirl · 03/09/2013 22:35

If he's happy and there is a test in 6 weeks then leave it for now. I strongly suspect they haven't put them in sets yet but will make their own judgements

SunshineMMum · 03/09/2013 22:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

morethanpotatoprints · 03/09/2013 22:41

Many high schools do their own setting and have no interest in the levels they gained at primary. I can't see as it is that important tbh if the school are testing themselves

SummerHoliDidi · 03/09/2013 22:45

I teach maths and we have mixed ability groups until half term when we set them once we know them a little. We do it because we have so many feeder primaries that there is quite a bit of variation in what the primaries have done to prepare for the sats and we don't want to make a mistake based on different priorities in the primary schools.

To be honest, we do a lot of revision within those first 6 weeks, making sure that ALL pupils can confidently use the basic methods we want them to be using, even those pupils arriving with level 5 frequently have problems multiplying and dividing efficiently.

Original poster

ReallyTired · 03/09/2013 22:51

I think that my son must be in a mixed ablity group. He is perfectly happy with his group as far as he is concerned maths lessons are just a minor part of school life.

I suppose I am a little surprised that they have decided to mix forms.

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SummerHoliDidi · 03/09/2013 22:58

We mix forms as well. Each pupil is in 2 or 3 different teaching groups for different subjects so that they get to know as many pupils as possible and don't have to spend all day every day with the same group of pupils. We only set for maths in Y7, everything else is mixed ability til y8. So they have one group for maths, Ict, science, a different group for English and humanities and yet another group for practical subjects like Art, Technology and PE. It works well for us.

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating · 03/09/2013 23:28

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numbum · 03/09/2013 23:32

My primary school DS is in a y3/4 class with the same range of ability. I would love to know how they manage it!

Fraxinus · 03/09/2013 23:40

YABU.

Let the kids settle in, and give the teachers the opportunity to decide how they are going to organise their groups before you wade in worried that your child might be contaminated by a lower performing friend.

Original poster

ReallyTired · 04/09/2013 00:06

I don't think that my son will be contaminated, but I do wonder how the secondary school is going to manage differentiation. In primary the class had tables, but today my son was allowed to sit where ever he liked.

The boy who is working at level 2 is lovely, but in primary he had a TA to help him. I feel that if they are going to have level 2 children in the same class as a level 5 child for maths then they need to provide a TA.

OP posts:

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