To find people say X public School is OK because

[NoComet]

It gets DCs into Oxbridge and RG universities, a daft justification for choosing a school that costs £15,000 plus a year.

We have a local secondary (not even a true comp as there is some creaming off of bright DC by Grammar schools) that is in Special Measures that has just got two pupils in to Oxbridge.

And this is hardly news, bog standard state secondaries and sixform collages all over the country send DCs to Oxbridge and RG Universities every year.

My very ordinary Welsh Comp sent someone in the year above me to study medicine at Oxford, there were others at prestigious med schools and, now, RG uni's me included.

Yes, private schools are very nice, yes DC avoid some DCs with a bad attitude to education, Yes DC get good sports facilities and yes DC may study a wider range of subjects, esp. MFL.

But in the end your DC will, quite likely end up at exactly the same uni, doing the same course, just with poorer parents!

'I don't know whether you know people who've done just that, tall, and if so then I have no respect for them in the latter two situations particularly.'

So, why is it any better to use your financial advantage by moving to a more expensive area than pay school fees? You could argue that by paying the higher property prices that you're fuelling the divide and limiting the choices available to those who don't have the financial means. Yes, I do know people who have done all of those things and are happy to crow about it too.

If you are happy with your choice of school why would it be any concern of yours that people are sending their children to private schools and 'wasting' their money?

Just enjoy your great free choice and we can carry on wasting our money in peace.

It depends what the parent in question measures 'inferiority' by in a school, doesn't it?

If I had the choice of the day school in town with the high fees and results or the comprehensive my children are at, I'd choose the latter because I'd rather they were there, in that environment, having that life. And I think I'm in my right mind

Running you'll forgive my lack of surprise at the Telegraph's POV on state schools and the new Gove-style Ofsted's 'findings'!

The article reports Wilshaw as saying Ofsted will crack down on schools they perceive to be doing that... it does not say that such practice is routine - it doesn't even give any numbers for setting vs mixed ability! But the Torygraph have of course managed to suggest that That's What Happens In State Schools.

My hubby's brother's kids go to a non-selective public school - and have found that as they are not the brightest in the bunch, they are struggling and their choices are getting more and more limited - No single science O levels for them - if they are entered and might just get a B - imagine what would happen to the school's grading points...... so they are steered away from subjects that they do enjoy because they will not excel - not everyone can, even with tutoring....... look at the royal family's qualifications!

Triple sciences, further maths, languages : I agree, it is a crying shame that all state schools do not offer those. They should.
Teachers with relevant science degrees : I agree, it is really sad that bright people are put off teaching because idiots like Gove slag them off non stop no matter what they do.

Not everyone has a car / is able bodied etc : not needed when most of what my kids do is either at school or within walking distance of home.

And yes I work as does DH, but we are both self employed : we have sacrificed earnings for flexibility.
Very few people live exactly as anybody else does, but I am no means alone in being a comparatively well off highly motivated state school parent.

Runningchick
The only state secondary school round here that has mixed ability classes is Thornden. It does not seem to harm their pupil outcomes.
All the rest set lots and lots and lots.

Original steaming - there is a lot of research available from a variety of sources that states very similar findings

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22873257

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/education/article3544270.ece

teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2007/04/15/mixed-ability-teaching-doesnt-exist/

www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/oct03/vol61/num02/-Grouping-Gifted-Students.aspx

yes i believe they would or very few wouldn't

they are moving to get the best for their children. most peoples political views, feelings on what is socially right go out of the window when it comes to what is best for their child

if ds got a place in the very good state school i would be happy (but comparing his work to my friends children i see that he is working at a more advanced level but probably down to class size)

anyway the very very good state schools around here are full of middle class children from middle class homes they are not representative of the area on the whole and if only slightly more than ds prep school is

C&P from the BBC one -

*Head teachers questioned the statistical basis of Ofsted's claims.

Association of School and College Leaders general secretary Brian Lightman said: "I have real concerns about Ofsted's evidence base for drawing these conclusions.

"Level 5 is a wide band that includes a range of ability levels, not just the brightest students. The government has said that for children who come into secondary school with a Level 5, expected progress means a B at GCSE.

"Of course we want those children to achieve even higher, but for Ofsted to say that they are underachieving if they don't get an A or A is unfair to those students and their teachers."

most peoples political views, feelings on what is socially right go out of the window when it comes to what is best for their child

You may 'believe' this, and you may have experienced it yourself, but please don't assume everyone else is the same.

And again, I have to say that 'best for' might well entail, for many parents, not going to private school!

And re. that Wilshaw stuff again - bit unfair to blame schools for the fact that many children are 'bright-eyed and bushy tailed' at 11, and somewhat less so at 16, don't you think? Or maybe not - if only I'd known I could have bypassed all the teenage grumps and sulks and changes if I'd not sent them to state school!

At private school they would be expected to get an A or A* and encouraged and supported to try and make that possible, instead of settling on a B being good enough.
I got a B in GCSE maths and the (state) school were thrilled as I was the first student in more than 10 years to get above a C grade in Maths. I like to think that a private school who hadn't managed more than a C grade in over a decade would have closed down due to rapidly falling pupil numbers. BTW - I took responsibility for my own learning in order to try and get better than a C.

Runningchick
A school that does mixed ability classes .... Look up Thornden's results and then tell me that the article is not Gove and Wilshaw bashing comps because they hate them and have nothing better to do.

Runningchick
Private schools SELECT therefore it is statistically invalid to compare them with non selective schools.
Same as comparing Kings Winchester with a school in Grimsby would be invalid because the areas are too different.
Your stats are nearly as weak as Mr Michael "I want all pupils above average" Gove

that is why i said most

areas that are changed within a few years (parts of peckham are a good example) do these parents give any thought to the families they are pushing out of the area, or renting empty flats to get their children into the state school of their choice making the catchment area smaller, in turn making it the area where the nice families live

it is hypocritical to claim that you would never send your child to a private school but are willing to move into an area that a few years previously you would have never considered because it now has a good school with nice families living in that area

You also can't extrapolate from your own time at school, I don't think.

My school got away with a lot (1989-1996) that it wouldn't have not very long after - your Maths B would have been just the sort of thing, in fact. And indeed it did not continue to get away with it - I've seen the Ofsted reports that put it in Special Measures and they flag everything that was wrong with it when I was there, and it has improved hugely.

it is hypocritical to claim that you would never send your child to a private school but are willing to move into an area that a few years previously you would have never considered because it now has a good school with nice families living in that area

Maybe so - but why not engage with those who would never send a child to private school and haven't done that? Or at least acknowledge there are lots of us!

Otherwise it's like me just saying again and again 'well most of them are snobs and I know some who definitely are, and I believe that most of the others probably are' and never getting past that.

i find ofsted reports a joke

how can a school get an outstanding ofsted report when the
far fewer children are reaching level 4 and 5 in english and maths than in other outstanding school in the area

strangely this school is now being used by estate agents to lure people into looking to buy in that area. give it 5 years the background of most pupils will be very different to what it is today

some select - some do not....

Tony Bliar has a LOT to answer for with his darned "parental choice".
The genie is out of the bottle.
But if people HAD to go to their local school they would do something about it.

I am one of 500 parents who have chickened out of that on our local school ... if we ALL went back to it, it would improve, but if only 20 of us did, our kids would fail.

PS I'm not against private schools : I have considered it for my kids as I went to private. I am against selective state schools and I do find the prevalence of the 'old boys network' depressing.

But really I just wish Gove would get reshuffled to another planet.

Moving to an area with a good school (for that reason alone) is effectively buying a better education. It might satisfy some to say that "we would never go private as it creates a two tier system and is a waste of money and something that only snobs would do", but spending an extra 100k or however much is almost the same thing - spending money to try and get a better education / school experience.

i have said some

but i am also standing by it is hypocritical to say you would never but blah blah what i had said before

if you child got a place in a state school where pupils were underachieving, problems with discipline, disruption in classes, high levels of absence would and low grades would you really still send your child to that school if you had a choice to be able to provide with them with a good education?

Madeofstardust
ALL fee paying schools select : either by exams or by wallets - none of them allow open applications from anybody in the area.

Freudian because Ofsted doesn't (or shouldn't) rank the school on its intake, but what it does with, and for them.

Thus a 'good' school might well get more level 5s at year 6 because its intake is strong, and it's pretty good at teaching them, its management is solid enough &c.

An outstanding school may send fewer year 6s out with level 5s because it is working with different children, but it might do management, teaching, extra-curricular stuff, creating a safe environment and setting meaningful homework &c &c &c than the other.

If you just want to know who sends the most year 6s away with the best SATS, you don't need ofsted, you just need league tables.

'I am one of 500 parents who have chickened out of that on our local school ... if we ALL went back to it, it would improve, but if only 20 of us did, our kids would fail.'

This is the problem isn't it? Nobody is willing to sacrifice their child's chances if they don't have to and rightly so imo. There's too much at stake.

'Moving to an area with a good school (for that reason alone) is effectively buying a better education. It might satisfy some to say that "we would never go private as it creates a two tier system and is a waste of money and something that only snobs would do", but spending an extra 100k or however much is almost the same thing - spending money to try and get a better education / school experience.'

Absolutely.

Freudian, hand on heart, I would not ever ever send my children to private school.