to be disappointed that my 4 year old doesn't want piano lessons

[evalluna]

Both my partner and I are musical, I played in orchestras throughout school and university and a bit beyond, though have let it slide since having children. My partner plays several instruments and has played in loads of different ensembles. We have a piano which we both (again mainly pre-kids) enjoyed playing though not to a great standard. We have always been keen for our kids to learn though (I have always regretted not having piano lessons as we didn't have a piano when I was growing up.) My partner was keen for them to learn by the suzuki method, so yesterday we took our daughter to meet a suzuki teacher, who was lovely (and our daughter actually went to sit next to when asked which is unusual as she is usually shy with unknown adults). However, when the teacher tried to do a few clapping games with her she wasn't interested and started being silly, and when she asked her if she wanted to learn to play the piano she said no. Understandably the teacher didn't want to take on a young child who didn't want to learn and suggester we leave it a while.

I am a bit disappointed, partly as I am probably projecting my own wish to have learned young on to her and feel it is wasting an opportunity. Also, I think she does have a fair bit of musical ability - she has always loved music and has had a very in-tune singing voice from an early age. My partner feels we have somehow failed not to have instigated in her a desperate desire to learn the piano. However, personality wise she has always been a mixture of extremely stubborn and quite anxious in new situations and has never been one for doing something she doesn't want to do. I wonder if she is just not ready - similarly for a long time she refused to write her name when asked even though she could but now is happy to do so. And although she has known her letters for a long time she has only recently wanted to attempt to put them together to read (she is about to start reception) and it was pointless trying to get her to do this before.

We have got a book called Lulus piano lesson which we have been reading with her and she likes, and my partner has done a bit with her, teaching her where the notes are, which she knows. When i ask why she doesn't want to learn she says 'because I already know' (ie can bash about a bit!)

I don't want to push it, but want to try to develop things so she might be ready for lessons at some point. Has anyone had similar experience/ got any advice? Thanks.

[SilverApples]

' However I think at this age children are inevitably exposed to things their parents happen to be interested in or have some knowledge of.'

Yes, and it's lovely when they start participating and sharing, exploring and in some cases going beyond what the parents know. I'm all for it.
That is not the title of your thread, or the tenor of your OP, and I'm delighted that your thinking has moved on.

[mrsjay]

you really need to remember she is only 4 I agree about the whole exposing children to different experiences is amazing but they dont have to be busy all the time, saying that I wasn't exposed to anything as a child really so I did try and get my dds to experience a lot of things too see where their interests would go, but as I keep harping on about forcing children onto music when they have no interest or flare for it seems pointless as they look uncomfortable if you see them perform at school or concerts, etc, OP just relax about it she is 4

[morethanpotatoprints]

I would wait until she is a bit older and showed an interest. I have seen a few children who played music to please mum and dad, I think it is a thin line between encouraging because they want to and encouraging because you want them to.
Our dd is very musical and has shown an interest since she was 2. Our older dc enjoy listening to music but have never wanted to play anything despite trying several instruments and being encouraged.

[mrsjay]

I honestly think they need to have a flair for music iyswim

[morethanpotatoprints]

mrsjay

I think having a flair is necessary but also the desire needs to be there.
My ds2 has a lovely voice he is 18 now, but as a child his teachers, the vicar and many more commented on how good he was, asked him to join choirs etc. He was adamant that no way was he going to sing. Whereas dd with the same talent has passed the audition to join a really prestigious choir and starts next week.
They are all different and no amount of pushing, cajoling, bribery or anything else will make them want to do it if their heart isn't in it.
They may do it to please mum and dad, but to me that isn't what playing music is about. I believe it is a desire that comes from within.

[mrsjay]

I agree with you morethan they need to have a passion and even at a young age if it is not there you can't force them, to enjoy it or even be good at an instrument, dd plays guitar she would have rather poked her eyes out than play at school and she was asked loads she did her last year at school but that was it,

good luck to your daughter in her choir

[BsshBossh]

evalluna buy her a small keyboard piano and let her play it at leisure, let her see you playing piano, buy a piano app on iPad or tablet or touch PC (if you allow her access to screens), investigate Colourstrings music lessons for under 5s...

My 5 yo DD loves playing the piano but at the moment it is just play. There is a music school near us and they told us to come back when DD was 6 or 7.

[Tabliope]

Sorry to have to say this but what you see as encouragement I think your DD is taking as controlling and pushy. I think she refused to write her name despite your encouragement to exert some control over her life and some autonomy. I think you're running the risk of suffocating her. She's a tiny 4 year old. I wouldn't even be mentioning clubs/activities to her at that age unless she brought them up, yet you list everything she's been offered. I'd not mention any club/activity to her for the next 3 years and see what she wants to do. I think you're more likely to have success that way. I don't mean to be horrible but it's like you don't see what you're doing to her. And it's obvious you love her but to my mind you're not allowing her to develop herself. Musicposy had a good post.

[chocoluvva]

You could sneakily do pre-piano 'lessons' with her, Very short ones though.

eg, play each white key in turn naming the notes as you do exaggerating the repetition in a hilarious manner. Go up and down the keyboard. Comment on how short the music-notes alphabet is. Dance around while she's 'playing'. Play all the Cs in turn starting with middle C and attempting to sing each one as you do.

When you're walking with her adjust the length of your stride to the size of the interval you're singing.

Tap your right thumb against her left thumb, second finger against her second finger etc saying 1,2,3,4,5 in a character/comedy voice while you do it.

Enquire about the floppiness of her wrists - are they as floppy as yours? - as you shake your hands loosely from the wrists.

Play a simple melody on the piano 'with' her - she will contribute one repeated note at the right place - played with her third finger.

[evalluna]

Tabliope - the activities she has been offered I listed have occurred over her whole life so would not say she has ever done too much! We live in a smallish community and most mums I know have done all the same activities with their kids at some point so would hardly say it was over the top. Things she has tried and not liked I have not taken her back to. As for encouraging things like writing name, surely most parents do this with pre school children (from evidence that most seem to have made some attempts to write their own name in birthday cards etc). Perhaps you are advocating a neglectful approach where we don't teach our kids anything at all - it's not like I have her learnibg french or something. She now happily writes her name and anything else she asks me to spell for her but us not too keen on reading so I haven't tried to push it as a sure she will learn quickly k starting school.

I asked the original question as I was sure many children did start music lessons at this age (apparently not) and also she has tended to be a bit cautious/ reluctant initially about things she goes on to enjoy (like tap dancing) so I wondered how far and in what way to be encouraging. My plan now would b not to offer lessons again but let her mess about if shr wants and listen to lots of music.

My friend was recently giving after school tuition including tennis lessons to three kids, theyoungest in reception on Friday evenings - I would call that pushy!

[themaltesefalcon]

7 is the ideal age.

According to my piano teacher friend, you can harm the development of their fingers by starting them too young.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Don't teach her an instrument, teach her musicality.

My ds (6), my dd 4(with me), and my dh now sing in 3 part harmony on car journeys, which is a development from when we used to sing in rounds and bang question and answers on the drums.

DS has started to sing his own harmonies to other tunes now. He has had 10 weeks of piano lessons and is flying and we are enrolling him for violin lessons. DD wants to learn the piano because she wants to be able to do what ds can. We encourage ds to play around with the tunes, change the key, change the rhythm etc.

If the children enjoy music then they'll pick up an instrument fast WHEN THE ARE READY, without having to learn about music too.

[yoniwherethesundontshine]

I know two piano teachers and they say unless the child has natural aptitude and picks things up extremely quickly then its a waste of time and money to have them doing it so early. They can learn in one week older what will be a few months slog at 4.

Totally agree with others, she is exposed to music in your home, for god sake leave her alone, and let her be. If she shows natural interest, indulge her and teach her when she is older.

She is not an extension of you and is an individual with her own ideas and wil have her own interests. If that means no music, but perhaps taking apart car engines, then bite your tongue and go with it.

[LeoandBoosmum]

All I can think is 'she's 4!' Let her discover her own interests. She may become interested in playing the piano later, she may not. Just because you and you partner are musical and you have regrets about not having the opportunity to learn as a young child, that does not mean you should do anything more than gently encourage (I think you know that in your heart) while introducing other age-appropriate things that might appeal to her. Come back to it when she is a bit older and let he choose. At four all I wanted to do was watch Playskool, see my little friends and play with my toys.

[morethanpotatoprints]

mrsjay

Thanks v. much. It sounds like its going to be a huge commitment, but it's what she wants. She knows she owes us big time when she's older
But seriously, to me that's what its all about, if they are passionate you owe it to them to be supportive and encouraging.

[digerd]

Both our parents were musical and DM's dad. We 3 DC had no aptitude or desire to play a musical instrument.
However, my sis and I were talented dancers < DB turned out to be an academic>.

[Tabliope]

Evalluna, your child has said no, she doesn't want to learn piano (at the moment anyway) yet you've come on here asking advise of what to do (i.e. how to get her interested) and you and your partner feel disappointed and that you've failed to instigate in her a desperate desire to learn it! She's 4! That's why people are saying you're being pushy. Also, you said "for a long time" we tried to get her to write her name. A long time! What, since she was 1 or 2?

No, I don't advocate a neglectful attitude and that we should teach our kids nothing. BTW, my DS (a teenager) could read before school although I didn't bother with writing and plays two instruments to Grade 7 level. He plays a third to about Grade 3/4 and mucks about on 3 others. He's in school and county orchestras and ensembles. He started one instrument at 7 and another at 11. I would say 11 was probably a better age than 7, depending on the interest they have in it and what the instrument is. At 7 he never practiced that instrument at home at all for 4 years and I didn't push it - he wanted to carry on the lessons though. It won't go to your plans or schedules. Back off her, don't mention music lessons to her at all and you might be pleasantly surprised she comes home from school one day and says she wants to learn an instrument. The one she wants, and it might not be the piano.

I also don't necessarily think your friend's kids having tennis lessons after school is pushy. The two older ones might want to do it and the third would be there for the fun. That's what all these things should be.

[hobnobsaremyfavourite]

OP my teacher has a music degree and teaches the subject. He started lessons at the age of 11, yes 11!
He is extremely opposed to pushing children to young with instruments and finding the instrument that actually suits them, not everyone gets along with the piano.
OP you sound a tad obsessed and judgy.

[hobnobsaremyfavourite]

my husband I meant

[Tabliope]

Agree with hobnob. The person teaching my DS his third instrument, which he took up last year and is on about Grade 3/4, started playing that at 14. It's his career and he plays in a national orchestra. 11 is a good age imv and obviously 14 not the end of the world.

[Greythorne]

OP - you say way upthread: "my partner has already started showing her where the different notes are"

This seems to be key to the issue. You have a little girl who is sometimes intertested in music, sometimes not. Instead of "showing her where different notes are" in a formal, didactic way, I would recommend you and your DH just play the piano and sing, make it as fun and relevant as possible. Get her to see that piano is fantastic, rather than get her to see where different notes are.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

FWIW I don't think OP is pushy. She's wanting to get the child interested, not wanting to get the child to do it whether she's interested or not. Nothing wrong with that.

[evalluna]

I think maybe I phrased the name thing wrong - we didn't try for a long time, I just meant there was a period when she was able to do it but often didn't want to. Actually can't remember if it was us or nursery that taught her first. Of course she was not 1 or 2!

[MummytoMog]

I don't know why you're getting such a hard time OP, I'm desperate for my four year old to have lessons as well. She's pretty immature for her age though, and we haven't a hope of getting her into formal lessons until she develops a bit more.

To be frank, DD and DS are having lessons whether they want to or not. I honestly think it's an important skill to be able to read music and play the piano, and while I would prefer it if they loved it like I do, unless they're totally useless, they're learning.

I found a half size piano on Gumtree - it's a proper piano with pedals etc, but is diddy. The kids absolutely love it and often sit next to us and 'play along' when we play. Maybe something to consider? I see them on ebay fairly often.

[MummytoMog]

Half size piano is next to big piano, enabling the playing together!