to be disappointed that my 4 year old doesn't want piano lessons

[evalluna]

Both my partner and I are musical, I played in orchestras throughout school and university and a bit beyond, though have let it slide since having children. My partner plays several instruments and has played in loads of different ensembles. We have a piano which we both (again mainly pre-kids) enjoyed playing though not to a great standard. We have always been keen for our kids to learn though (I have always regretted not having piano lessons as we didn't have a piano when I was growing up.) My partner was keen for them to learn by the suzuki method, so yesterday we took our daughter to meet a suzuki teacher, who was lovely (and our daughter actually went to sit next to when asked which is unusual as she is usually shy with unknown adults). However, when the teacher tried to do a few clapping games with her she wasn't interested and started being silly, and when she asked her if she wanted to learn to play the piano she said no. Understandably the teacher didn't want to take on a young child who didn't want to learn and suggester we leave it a while.

I am a bit disappointed, partly as I am probably projecting my own wish to have learned young on to her and feel it is wasting an opportunity. Also, I think she does have a fair bit of musical ability - she has always loved music and has had a very in-tune singing voice from an early age. My partner feels we have somehow failed not to have instigated in her a desperate desire to learn the piano. However, personality wise she has always been a mixture of extremely stubborn and quite anxious in new situations and has never been one for doing something she doesn't want to do. I wonder if she is just not ready - similarly for a long time she refused to write her name when asked even though she could but now is happy to do so. And although she has known her letters for a long time she has only recently wanted to attempt to put them together to read (she is about to start reception) and it was pointless trying to get her to do this before.

We have got a book called Lulus piano lesson which we have been reading with her and she likes, and my partner has done a bit with her, teaching her where the notes are, which she knows. When i ask why she doesn't want to learn she says 'because I already know' (ie can bash about a bit!)

I don't want to push it, but want to try to develop things so she might be ready for lessons at some point. Has anyone had similar experience/ got any advice? Thanks.

[OhDearNigel]

Jinsei, i would probably give the activity 3 attempts if i know it is something that dd would enjoy if she gave it a chance.
We started mini tennis this year, the first lesson she wouldnt do it and cried, the second time she was prepared to do things while clinging to my leg and the 3rd time she had got used to the class and did the class without me. She loves it now
Had i followed this "dont disrespect your 3 year old's wishes" bollocks we would have given up on the first class.

[MadeOfStarDust]

my girls started at 5 and 6 - when they asked if they could (the youngest really just asked because the oldest started) we just let them mess about on the piano before then...

My eldest is now 12 and does the ABRSM exams and really loves/lives her music, the youngest did grade 1 and now just learns for fun.

[Chippednailvarnish]

numberlock

[mirry2]

op you mention her banging about whenever you play. Have you thought of sending her to a preschool music group? My dd used to attend one where they banged along to music using different percussion instruments like drums, triangles, cymbals etc. keeping to simple time and rythmns (sp) like 3 blind mice. and learnt when each instrument should come in to have a little solo. My dd did that for about 2 years and then started piano lessons at 6 years, followed by recorder and really enjoyed it - until she reached her teenage years

[BeckAndCall]

Just because she says 'no' now, OP, doesn't mean she'll say 'no' this time next year or the year after...... Just wait a while, it's not a race.

Fwiw, my DC all started at 7, having done the usual year 1 recorder type music first. Two out of my 3 were then grade 8 by 16 and one is at RCMJD now so age 7 is not a slow start and won't hold her back for any future options!

[JourneyThroughLife]

Four isn't too young, my son started violin lessons with the Suzuki method when he was three and a half and continued quite happily. My daughter showed much more musical promise (my husband was very musical) and would pick out things on the piano at an early age so we brought in a piano teacher, just like you have. But just as you've experienced, my daughter messed about, wouldn't cooperate and finally screamed and hid unde the piano, which was most unlike her. We gave up on the teacher, but left music on the piano and left my daughter to fathom it out herself - which she did. Since she saw her father playing every day, she would ask him when she was stuck on a note or fingering or something.

When she was a little older she joined a choir and also had school clarinet lessons, at school, at around age 7. This taught her all the musical background and stuff which she should have learned earlier. By then she could play the piano very well, but was self taught. She continued this way and showed real musical promise, but she would never, ever have a piano teacher. She went on to do A level music and did very well, and also won some music competitions with her own compositions, which she always worked out on the piano.

My son, on the other hand, wasn't really very musical at all, so despite his early lessons and accomplishments, never really carried on.
I doubt whether it's too early for your daughter to learn, but she may be very self-driven, and a teacher may not be the best way for her, just keep going at home....

[Lweji]

She is still young, so I wouldn't worry as she may want it later.

However, because she's still so young, I'm not sure you can actually ask what she wants regarding lessons.
She's just as likely to say no today as yes tomorrow.

Personally, I'd enroll her and see how it goes. If she doesn't like it and resists it, then I'd take her out.

Learning music is beneficial in many ways, and I wouldn't think you are pushy.
In the same way that some parents may want their children to learn how to swim, or taken them to baby/toddler gym.

[Lweji]

Even with my then 6 year old, some things he now really enjoys, his first reaction was no.
I told him that if by Christmas he still didn't want it, then he could stop it.
He ended up enjoying all of them.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

She is 4 and just a child. Whilst you may love music she needs to discover her own passions in life and find her own path.

DS chooses his own activities, we dont force him to do any as why would we? He has taken part in various ones over the years as school tends to vary them every year. He did do a musical one but its not his passion he's discovered but there was no issue with him finishing at all.

[squeakytoy]

I started piano lessons at 5, and did them for 6 years. But I was never forced. My dad played and I wanted to because of that.

[pianodoodle]

Also OP encouraging music around the house and letting her bash away at the piano is the best thing you can do to spark off an interest!

I agree with you piano is an excellent activity if they can get into it and useful in lots of other contexts as you say.

Of course I'm slightly biased

[Wisteria36]

I know how you feel op, I would love my ds to learn but although we mess about together on the piano sometimes, he's just not interested. I've stopped pushing it with him and am waiting for him to ask himself to play an instrument - he asked about violin the other day so I was encouraged. He loves ballet and also does a Kodaly pre instrument class in a group which teaches a lot of musicianship through singing in a relaxed way. Maybe that would be an option?

[musicposy]

I'm a piano teacher with two daughters who were, of course going to be concert pianists

My eldest started piano but nagged and nagged for ballet lessons. I dismissed this for two years and finally gave in, thinking that after a term of wearing something pink and frilly she would give up.
Despite my best efforts with piano she was never really that interested. She struggled along and finaly gave up just after Grade 5. It got pointless pushing her. She's 17 now and at a top ballet school and looks set to become a ballet dancer, so you just can't tell. Like you, I'd have preferred her to be more interested in piano and less in ballet, but it wasn't to be. They are their own people and live their own lives.

Interestingly, learning all about ballet has been fascinating. I actually think I enjoy her being a dancer more than a pianist.

My second daughter, after I had given up all hope of having musical children, wanted to learn piano at 6. So she started much later than your daughter, and I have to say as a teacher that I think 4 is very young and generally more likely to put them off than encourage them. DD2 is now 14 and working towards Grade 8. She is a fantastic pianist and is going to be better than me one day in the not too distant future! She doesn't want it as a career but we play lotsof advanced duets together, can accompany each other singing and it's lovely. However, I would not let her start before 6 and I think that worked very well as she was very keen by the time she started.

I have pupils who started at 10 and still make Grade 8 well before they leave school. I ahve an adult pupil who is Grade 4 standard after only a year. There isn't a time limit on these things.

I would say back off because in being so keen you will put her off - basically this was what I did with my eldest. Don't mention it again until she is 6 or 7 and then see. It's a much better age to start anyway. DD2 has a friend who started at 4 and was streets ahead of her at about 8 or 9. Now at 14 they are pretty much equal and DD2 is doing better in terms of distinctions in her exams, winning festivals etc, and certainly in terms of the fact that DD2 loves the piano and her friend finds it a chore.Her friend is a bit burnt out by the years of pressure, whereas after I got over the fact that DD1 was going to prefer dance, I relaxed over it and this relaxed approach has benefitted DD2 enormously.

Give it time and let her enjoy the ballet. She may be a musician and she may not but if you push now she will definitely not.

[Swanhilda]

My cousin is a piano teacher and has been for 30 years. He says he never starts lessons till the children are at least 7/8.

Ds1 started violin at 8 and is still playing happily and enjoying it.
Dd started violin at 6 (jealous of ds1) and gave up a year ago, only reaching Grade 1 in 4 years. She started the piano at 10 and passed Grade 1 within the year.

I have friends whose children started intruments/piano between 5 and 8 and after years of troublesome nagging to practise ultimately dropped it at secondary. A lot of time and money and bad feeling when possibly those children would have learnt better if they had started later. I think singing is one of those things which can never start too early but formal lessons at an early age need a lot of parental input.

[hiddenhome]

Four is too young. We tried violin lessons for ds2 when he was about 4.5 and he just didn't get it at all. He's now nearly 9 and is doing well on the piano and is very enthusiastic and has just started the clarinet.

Give it time and don't panic.

In them meantime, encourage music as much as possible around the house and let her see you playing. Children copy their parents

[cory]

musicposy's story is very interesting and gives a clear insight into the unpredictability of having children

my own very musical and (to some extent) frustrated-dreams mother had four children:

no 1 was pretty well tone deaf and only really cared for rock/pop music anyway

no 2 (me) was reasonably musical and quite liked Classical music but gave up all instruments I tried, not because I hated them per se, but because I had a passionate interest of my own and every hour spent practising the piano or the cello just seemed like an hour taking me away from chasing my own dreams. I did however grow up into that other useful thing: an audience. Somebody's got to do that job too.

no 3 was musical and interested and got as far as the first year of the conservatoire when he discovered that there were physical reasons (flexibility of fingers) which would always hold him back so he gave it up

no 4 again had totally different interests of his own which were a world apart from anything else done by any other member of the family

Our mother was sensible and realised that it wasn't a case of us being a disappointment to her; you might as well say she was a disappointment to sibling no 4 by not being able to share his technological interests (though again she proved a very useful and grateful recipient: always happy to have her washing machine mended or her computer set up).

Fast-forward 40 years and I have one child who shares my love of literature and poetry and one who boasts that he hasn't read a book since he came off the Oxford Reading Tree. But who has very strongly marked interests in an area I would never have thought of.

As a parent you introduce them to things and then you sit back and see what happens. It's part of the interest of having children. Some copy their parents and some do something totally different.

[HumphreyCobbler]

Four isn't too young if the child is ready. My DS started suzuki violin at four, we didn't really give him any choice but presented it as something fun to do. He was much less interested in reading his book once a night but we forced him into that He liked the violin (if he had been violently opposed to it after a few lessons we would have thought again naturally).

I certainly don't think your child is to be pitied! To the poster who expressed doubts that suzuki method is not gentle, it is a lovely way to learn. Seeing my son have a fit of the giggles when his teacher does the tunnel of terror is a sight to behold . He does about five minutes practice three or four times a week with his father. It is great. Nothing pushy or tiger mother about it.

[cory]

Humphrey, I don't think anyone is saying that the child was to be pitied if she wanted to learn and was taught by the suzuki method. Only if she persists in not wanting to learn (which is her present attitude) and the mother shows her disappointment.

At the moment, OP, I think your best bet is just to carry on with the things your dd enjoys, like singing, and then see if she shows an interest in learning an instrument in a year or two.

[chocolateygoo]

I am musical and have a 3.5 yr old son who I'd love to share my passion with.

At the moment I try to play the piano most days and he sits on the seat next to me and joins in. I have a book of nursery rhymes that we 'play' together and attempt to sing too (more like a drone, I just can't play and sing at the same time!). He really enjoys this.

Thinking I'd like to try something more formal, I bought the 'dogs and birds' beginners book. We've done a little bit from that but it hasn't really caught his imagination so I'm not pushing it.

I think the best thing to do is show how much you enjoy playing music - e.g. practice in front of them. Then just wait for them to catch the bug and ask for lessons. If they don't, then you haven't wasted several years forcing them to practice something they don't enjoy!

[oldandcrabby]

My mother started me on piano lessons when I was 4. After about 3 months the teacher said I had no talent and should give up. This left me convinced that music was not for me. My husband, a choral singer, said I have a good ear, and could have been quite competent but I have convinced myself that I am 'tone dumb'.
Non pressurised musical activities with plenty of rewards and praise might encourage your DC to show and interest later.

[Wisteria36]

We tried the 'Dogs and Birds' book too, but it didn't really catch on although ds occasionally looks at the pictures! If I practice in front of my ds he quite often puts one of his CDs on instead!

[chocoluvva]

The Kodaly method is called 'ColourStrings'. It's excellent for ear-training. It involves some movement/dance so might appeal to your DD. A fantastic pre-instrumental training course designed for littlies.

The children's classical concerts are good too.

Ballet on the piano perhaps? (with arms and fingers ) rainbow jumps with third finger from octave to octave, tippy toes (fingertips) up and down the keys etc

[ThePeppermintHippo]

Leave her for a few years. I started piano at 4 or 5 and I was too young to get much out of it, plodded on with it for quite a few years but never got good or really enjoyed it. My brother started at an older age and did much better, as did my friends who started their instruments older. I accept that maybe I'm just not very musically talented and this is only anecdotal, but I do think its better to leave it a few more years!

[LemonPeculiarJones]

OP she may never show an interest in learning the piano, or any other instrument. Ever.

This will be due to the fact that she is an individual human being in her own right.

Observe her, pay attention to what does interest her, and nurture that.

To do otherwise would simply be an exercise in you using your child as an extension of yourself, to fulfil a wish of your own.