AIBU to relocate so my DD will sing "Little Donkey"

[farmerswifey]

We moved to Wales from England almost before we had children. We've tried to learn Welsh but it is so bloody difficult and as we so rarely need to use the language, we only know the basics. DD will start school next year, the main problem being ALL of the schools in the area have recently become Welsh language schools. For the first 3 years DD will learn everything in Welsh.

AIBU to be upset that I will not be able to help her more with her education? I am sure she'll be fine, and growing up bilingual would be good, but I feel I will miss out on so much. AIBU to want to move house and up-route our family just so I'll understand her reading books and school plays.

breatheslowly
Of course it has links to other languages. I know one Welsh lady who has forged a career as a linguist in Bretagne. She goes from island to island in the English channel, recording different types of French and Gaelic spoken there. I want her life. :)

toadinthehole
To counter your anecdotal experience, I attended a kohanga reo (Maori language nest) as a child and went on to be first in New Zealand at English in the final year of high school. I really believe being raised bilingually has helped me enormously. Now I work in Russia, where I picked up the language to a decent level in a year or two, plus I'm proficient in French. Sadly, I've now forgotten most of my Maori, but I suspect it still lurks at the back of the brain.

I think it sounds like an excellent educational experience for your DD even if it isn't such a widely used language. I missed the opportunity to learn gaelic at school in N.I because I was from a "Protestant" background and it's usually only taught in Catholic schools.

I'd love to be bi-lingual and as it's so easy for them to pick up when they're that young I'd take the opportunity if it was there :)

I started music lessons when I was 4 and kids really do soak it all up so well - the benefits extend into all areas of their life and education often regardless of how generally "useful" the subject ends up being to them.

OP I do understand how you feel that your children will miss out on your own culture.

I felt that same about my children in Belgium. I am very happy they are bi-lingual and their education is very good. But all the TV they watch, music they listen to, all their culture is in flemish.

I have had to make a real effort to ensure they have some of my culture too. In particular, music. I get them singing english songs, reading english books, I take them to english films. My two girls are learning the piano and I am teaching dd1 english music - Greensleeves this summer - and nearer Christmas - Christmas carols . And when we visit the UK this winter I will take them to a carol service.

You really don't need to lose your own culture just because your children are exposed to a new culture. They can have both.

themaltesefalcon - Welsh appears to have links to some other languages which are barely spoken (Cornish & Breton). In comparison something like Flemish is a form of Dutch and might open doors in terms of speaking Dutch or German.

Overthefields and Alis - don't worry, I don't live in Wales and I wouldn't move to a Welsh speaking area if I didn't want my DD to be educated in Welsh. However there is a difference between compulsory Welsh and a Welsh medium school.

OP, MOVE!

I am in a similar circumstance but in a foreign country, all schools are in the local 'dialect/language' which is useless to anyone outside this province and like you, I want to help my daughter with her homework and education.

We have moved, she now goes to a school which teaches the language of the country I am in, so although I struggle a bit with that, at least it is a recognised and useful language WRT university and the future prospects.

No regrets at all and I totally understand where you are coming from.

I don't think my DW's experiences should be written off as anecdote. She has had to provide help to a lot of children, and former kohanga reo kids struggling at English-medium high schools is a well-recognised problem.

I congratulate you on your success, but it is not really a counter-example.

I hope this doesn't sound rude, but I wonder whether this is more about you than your daughter. Your child will pick up the Welsh language in no time at all - and you will still be able to be an immense help to her with maths, science, reading in English etc. (These things are not language dependent - you can teach her from an English book at home, and she can learn in Welsh at school).

I wonder if you are feeling a bit threatened by the challenge of learning another language to help your daughter with her education. I know I would be - it gets scarier to take something new on when you get a bit older! But you could turn it on its head and see it as an amazing opportunity for you both to learn something new together. Welsh has such an amazing tradition of storytelling, and the myths and legends are just wonderful. There will be an incredible amount of discovery that you can make together, and hopefully it will enrich both of your lives tremendously!

Toadinthehole - no I don't think they should be written off as anecdote - but I am just not really sure how relevant your DW's experiences are to the OP. There would have been so many other socio-economic factors at play that make the experience for the Maoris unique.

The majority of people in the world are bilingual and the vast majority of children have no problem being brought up bilingual. Even my ds, who has a very severe speech disorder, is bilingual.

somersethouse - obviously you did what is best for your child - but your child is still being brought up bilingual. The choice the OP is making for her child is between bilingual and not-bilingual.

farmerswifey - as you say yourself, I'm sure your dd will be fine. You won't miss out as you can still do loads with her. The school can teach her reading in Welsh but there is nothing stopping you helping her read in Welsh at home and helping her learn to read in englsih.

It would be great if you could go back to learning some Welsh yourself - I'm sure it will help you feel more settled in Wales and you will find it easier to learn Welsh if your dd is learning Welsh as well. You will feel more motiviated and encouraged by her.

OP, it's not too late to for you to learn. My mother took up Czech in her late 60's and Russian in her early 70's. She learnt enough to read Tolstoy in the original. I'm sure you could manage a few nursery rhymes. It will be great fun for your dd to teach you.

But why would the OP want to learn Welsh it's a dead language, knowing it is bugger all use for anything except getting a job as a teacher in Wales.

I know one person who found studying Welsh had any use at all, A D(English)F did A level Welsh to have the required MFL to do a degree in speech therapy - in London.

Why did she do Welsh, simply because our school French dept. was utterly and completely useless.

For all I think Welsh is an utter waste of space, our Welsh master was lovely.

It's not widely spoken, granted, but it's not dead.

You've just written off most of North Wales

If you feel strongly about it you should move (tbh I would). I do feel its a shame in the UK they dont focus on teaching children other languages but I would want my child to be taught a languge that would mean they they could compete in the global market rather than one small area.

I must admit, I'd love my kids to be bi-lingual - but in a language that'd be of use to them in a career. German, French - one of the big European players or Chinese.

TBH, I wish they could speak English properly sometimes!!

Welsh is not a useful language unless you want to live & work in North Wales I'm afraid...

My kids I meant, not the Welsh!!

As someone living in North Wales, who speaks Welsh to some of her closest family members, friends, texts in Welsh, speaks Welsh in the work place etc etc I am hugely offended to read that the welsh language is "dead".

No it really isn't! Come and live where I live and try telling me that Welsh is a dead language.

OP, your daughter is getting the chance to be part of a wonderful culture and to see so many lovely things- Welsh poetry is spectacular for example and uses an unique meter system she won't see in any other language in the world. She's lucky because she has double the culture! In fact, having an English mother I'd say she has the perfect balance (my mum is English so I'm biased!) as she'll grow up and be able to speak both languages equally which is an amazing thing! Would also argue it's not so much the language itself that's important when you're bilingual but the skills acquired in being able to speak and think in both languages- and the transferable skills when learning other new languages- my welsh helped me with my French fr example.

For what it's worth I got an A* in both English and Welsh- good job really seen as the latter is 'dead' ey.

Too true! The teaching of MFL in English schools is awful and, as I said above, of French at my Welsh school was too.

Britain in general has a terrible track record for language teaching.

I simply think that spending scarce resources on looking inwards and backwards trying to resurrect Welsh, Wales shouldn't be looking to the future.

Surely it would do the young people of Wales far more good for the money to be spent on European languages, Chinese and IT lessons. Things to equip them for a global future, not a Rose coloured, fairytale view of the past.

It's not a rose coloured view of the past to those of us who utilise it and speak it everyday. It's just as important to us as English is to you- imagine how you'd feel if it was just decided to completely drop English, stop learning and speaking it and concentrate on Chinese instead- it would be like robbing me of half my identity- no thanks

StarBall I have worked for the Welsh government on contracts and they often require a certain % of contractors to speak Welsh. Therefore companies are casting about for people with the skills they need including Welsh.

That said, friends who had a Welsh education through to 18 found changing to formal writing in their specialist subject in English at degree level quite difficult.

Cezella, North Wales is almost a different country to the Mid Wales of my childhood and some where I never went. The good roads lead south and East.

I know more about North Wales from my Yorkshire DMIL who spent her summers they than from living for 17 years in Wales.

This is the problem with devolution Wales isn't one country and a lot of what suits the Welsh speaking North, doesn't sit quite right in the South and is totally alien to the very rural sparsely populated centre.

I speak Welsh daily as do thousands of people. Whole communities live their lives in Welsh. Come and see the thousands of children educated in Welsh, come and visit the areas clamouring for more Welsh medium schools.
Or don't and carry on referring to it as a "dead" language. Pisses me off that its acceptable to slag off a language and a culture on here and it always ends like this on threads about the Welsh language , would this animosity and lack of tolerance be acceptable about any other minority language or culture.
((hides thread))

I think demanding contractors speak Welsh is very wrong.

One day it's certain to end up in court because it's surely counter to European free movement of workers and competition rules?

The only legitimate grounds for imposing language rules are surely health and safety and since they all speak English (polish, etc.) too that's nonsense.

I think the logic is that when working in Welsh communities they should be able to communicate with them.

I didn't actually want to debate that, just point out one practical implication for learning Welsh. I'm sure its not counter to EU free movement rules though: anyone can learn to speak a language if they choose. It would be counter to them if the rule was that a certain % had to be born in Wales, not that they have to have a skill.

It massively annoys me too. We've had our language and our culture downtrodden and threatened for centuries for no reason at all other than being next door to England. And just as the language figures are on the rise at last and things are looking up, people think it's acceptable to declare Welsh to be a dead language that has no use and decide we should just scrap it instead.

Hobnob, I don't slag off a culture, I object to a culture being imposed on those parts of Wales to which it doesn't belong.

I'll say it again, Wales is not one country, anymore than England is. (The threads on getting London school places are another planet).

I'm simply very unhappy that a political elite are using the children of Wales as pawns in their power games. Do parents really want Welsh medium education, or like my DSIS DF do they realise Welsh medium is the only way of getting a decently resourced school for her DSs?