Hilariously painful circular conversation DH just had with SIL

[WayHarshTai]

SIL is lovely but a bit trying.

She is also one of those people who will not be swayed once they get an idea in their head.

Right. DH and his brother (SIL's DH) work together. They earn similar amounts and have just had a pay rise. BIL did a big chunk of overtime last year and earned a whisker over the 50k mark.

So they've had a letter inviting them to stop claiming Child Benefit.

And oh god this conversation was painful. SIL phoned DH to tell him to be careful because we earn more than that together so we'll lose CB. No SIL, it's individual amounts.

She told DH not to do any overtime, BIL isn't either, because of losing CB. DH, bless him, was very patiently explaining that it works on a sliding scale. I was inputting numbers into the hmrc website to tell them that in fact they would only have to pay back £70. Nope, she says, we've got to stop claiming it.

DH said, yes, they invite you to stop claiming but you don't have to.

He also asked if they (BIL and SIL) had deducted pension contributions from his income, no she says, they don't do that (yes they do), no it's your whole joint income (no it's not).

It was just bonkers.

They are going to throw away a grand a year for no reason because SIL will not research it or listen to us reason.

DH is going to catch his brother later and try and talk to him, but he tends to go along with SILs way for an easy life I think.

I know this is none of our business, before you jump on me, but I can expect a good few months of her telling me that we aren't entitled to it and what have we done about it (we are).

AIBU to be involved in this at all? Probably.

She needs to buy Denby. Fact.

at Denby.

Honestly, poor DH. He was gamely trying to give her the facts while she just rode roughshod over him with 'facts' of her own and WOULD NOT LISTEN.

Seriously, could you point them to the hmrc website? Or a good financial advisor?

I love Denby, but can only afford 2 mugs. Fact

DH is emailing his brother with the gov.uk calculator I was using. Hopefully he'll use it. They don't trust the internet though and don't use it at home.

And in fact I had this conversation with her the other day, but in the abstract. She kept saying about the 50k 'limit' and about it being joint and I just kept saying, no, it's individual and on a sliding scale.

But she wouldn't have it. That was before they got a letter which I suppose has just confirmed her paranoia about it. I think the letter is quite ambiguous because they want people to just stop claiming.

My Mum is the same, she wouldn't get a mortgage protection policy, convinced that it would cost to much, without getting a quote and so had to keep paying, when my Dad suddenly died.

She is the same over anything practical and worthwhile, put pays for stupid insurance policies that cross each other.

You cannot advise some people.

Oh. Why?

Why don't they trust the internet? They just don't. Won't use it for shopping or banking or anything because it's not safe. If they are to be believed they've had their card cloned both times they tried using it online (the details of this make me think that's not strictly true, or certainly not both times, the second time they used it and then got a virus warning pop-up, as far as BIL is concerned that means it was cloned ) so they cancelled the cards and the internet and that's that.

I'm sorry about your Dad, Birds, sorry I missed your post.

Frustrating, isn't it?

It's not really hilarious is it, more frustrating.

When my first child was going through various interactions with officialdom (school applications, CB, GCSE options, whatever) I foolishing opted to try to explain to other people why what their cousin told them about what happened to their sister's dog's walker's aunt's child who moved to Scotland in 1973 wasn't relevant, and how things they read on Netmums aren't necessarily accurate.

I found it most toxic around secondary application time, when people did really, really foolish things with the equal preference system and ended up with either no school place or one that was obviously far worse than they should have got.

The second time around, I realised that there are a lot of people for whom "truthiness" is all, and who trust what their sister's dog's walker's etc tells them more than mere facts. They're the people who forward chain mail about blue star LSD and sending Nike shoes to get a refund and so on, because they got the mail from someone they trust and that's enough to show it must be true.

So I gave up. When someone told me that if you just put one school on the form they have to give you a place, or that you have to put certain schools down #1 as otherwise they won't consider you for a place, or how if you get a solicitor to write a letter you will always win an appeal I just nodded, said "that's interesting" and left them to get on with it. Fewer arguments, fewer fallings out.

Life's now much easier.

You've tried your best to explain and they're not listening. Their problem. Stop fretting about it. They sound bonkers.

It was laugh or cry, to be fair Soupy.

She sounds hard work

I got that letter this morning and I suppose it's not totally clear but you've explained everything so clearly and she still won't listen

Hopefully your DH will get through to her DH

I don''t think you can do any more

What does the letter actually say, Cat? Because SIL is adamant that it says they lose it all.

Sorry, absolutely nothing useful to add, just incredibly happy that I'm not the only one who suffers this kind of inane, migraine inducing daily chat with the IL'S!

Yeah, MIL is a bit like it too.

The 'truthiness' thing is spot on.

Here you go

Dear Catgirl

We are sending you this letter to help you pay the right amount of tax. If you had any changes to your income last year, or if you are affected by the recent changes to Child Benefit for people on higher incomes, you might need to complete a Self Assessment tax form

Changes to Child Benefit

The new High Income CB change came into effect on 7 January 2013. You are liable to pay the tax charge if all of the following statements apply to you:

you have an individual income over £50k a year AND
either you or your partner received any CB
your income for the tax year is higher than your partners. The partner with the higher income is liable to pay the tax charge if both partners income is over £50k

If you or your partner stopped your CB payments before 7 Jan 2013, you do not need to take any further action. To check whether the tax charge applies to you go to hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefitcharge

If it does apply then you must register for Self Assessment for the 2012 - 13 tax yea by 5 October 2013, so that you can declare the CB you received, pay the tax charge on time and and avoid a late payment penalty.

You might be able to avoid Self Assesment in future years if you (or your partner if they are the CB recipient) choose to opt out of recieving CB and avoid incurring the tax change. Go to hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefitcharge if you want to opt out.

Then it goes on to talk about letting them know about other changes to your income including pension plans (which I your DSIL seems to have missed) and charitable donations etc

That is frustrating, some people just won't listen though. Hopefully your DH can get through to the BIL. If that fails, and she continues moaning just nod and say yes. Offering more advice blatantly isn't going to work.

my uncle wanted to claim a rebate for washing his work clothes. He decided to do it through a third party company. I printed off the hmrc forms to fill in so he could get his full entitlement, and told him repeatedly if he did it himself directly though hmrc he would have no charges etc and he'd get the full rebate if he was entitled. He went through the third party company and them moaned how they kept a big chunk for themselves!

Some people just won't listen to logic and reason!

It's worth noting that even if you're not "eligible" for child benefit, it's still paid unless you opt to stop claiming, and then reclaimed via your tax code in the following year. That may well be a nice interest-free overdraft of a couple of grand, if you're so minded. If your income is up and down across the 50/60k window, because of overtime, bonuses or flexible working hours then it makes much more sense to continue to claim and then sort it out in tax the following year. Or, of course, figure out how much to pay into your pension to pull you back down below the limit.

DH had same letter this week. The wording is a bit vague IMO.

It also doesn't say anything about the home responsibilities protection (sorry if I've got the name wrong, that is what it used to be called) which surely you don't get anymore, once you stop claiming CB? Very sneaky of HMRC I think.

So yes, SIL is BU...autocorrect just changed SIL to silly, nuff said

That would drive me crazy to. My FIL is similar, he spent a long time telling me I shouldn't bother giving to charity as 90% of what you give is spent on admin. Wouldn't believe me that I've checked the financial report of the main charity I give to and it's actually 11%.