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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

aibu to wonder why we are doing nothing about syria

279 replies

ThatVikRinA22 · 30/08/2013 23:27

why are we doing nothing?
labour clearly sitting on the fence because of iraq as are the rest of the jittery gvt....

ive heard all the "its not our busniness" arguments - the same was said in WW2 until it was too late.

i cannot comprehend why we would advocate doing nothing - rwanda all over again.
m sickened tbh that people feel so able to wash their hands when people - children - are being napalmed and gassed.

what about what is morally right? forget politics - are we really just going to do nothing??
because its not us?

im not advocating another iraq war - but surely we cannot stand on the sidelines and watch this without doing anything?

OP posts:
camaleon · 31/08/2013 14:18

There is quite strong evidence pointing to the use of deplated uranium by allies in Iraq. This is also a war crime. Many Iraqis also wonder why nobody did anything when chemical weapons were used against them; or when they have been tortured, etc.

camaleon · 31/08/2013 14:23

Why Syria and not North Korea? Because this is about politics, not about law. It depends on national interest, not the general good.

In many ways the countries who want to attack Syria don't have Syria as main target, but Iran. they want to send a serious warning to Iran.
Because France, the US and UK cannot allow other countries to get the nuclear weapons that they have got. Not allowing others to have the same makes them safer and they don't want to lose that.

Very few ask themselves the question of why should Iran not have nuclear weapons? Why shall it be punished for that?

Assad is killing its own people as it happens in any civil war. Lincoln was killing his own people too, wasn't he? I believe we should try to protect civilians of the horrors of war and the ambitions of the rulers of the world. But there is not a clear solution.

As far as I know, the Syrians are not asking the UK to come over either

Crumbledwalnuts · 31/08/2013 14:26

The Arab world is protecting its own interests by not speaking out.

Pagwatch · 31/08/2013 14:28

Oh good grief.
Saying that the UK should not be leading military strikes upon Syria is absoloutely not the same as saying i don't give a shit about children being killed.
What a crappy non argument.

I believe that running ahead of the UN would, at this moment, make things even worse. That does not mean I am indifferent to children suffering.

burstingbaboon · 31/08/2013 14:30

Syrians are not asking UK to go over there so why UK was even contemplating any interference?
They can deal with it. Yes, what is happening is teribble but as well in other parts of the world including here things are happening. I know it's bad I don't dispute that at all but I know as well how they are and why put this country in danger ? For what?
Don't worry, it's a silent thing but everyone knows what they think about west. Look what they are doing to tourist when they go there or when they take kids and mothers in UK have to go to extreme to get them back. They were cutting people in Bosnia- same Arabs .....
They are who they are and they should solve it within.

burstingbaboon · 31/08/2013 14:31

Protecting children YES but through aid and medical professionals not through military involvement.

aladdinsane · 31/08/2013 14:33

I'm not convinced that us dabbling in other countries ever improves things- we seem to make more of a mess of everything we get involved in

camaleon · 31/08/2013 14:47

Burstingbaboon. With all due respect, I really doubt you know 'how they are'. Some people hate Western countries; others as you seem to hate others. Hate seem quite easy to spread in general. A big difference is that other countries do normally know something about the US and the UK, which is not true the other way round.

burstingbaboon · 31/08/2013 14:56

I don't hate no one , I don't have time for that.
I was just trying to put across that they should deal with their own problems, they are NOT bigger then anyone's else problem. There is not even one person from Arab world that are ready to do anything about it , why would UK?
Dont go around Camaleon accusing people of hate, it's not necessary.

camaleon · 31/08/2013 15:05

Sorry for that burstingbaboon. You may no hate no one but you seem to have a very low opinion of Syrians from what you let see in your posts.

There are many human beings suffering incredibly in that country at the moment, most of them have done nothing to deserve it. Most of them are where they are now. Assad was about to be proposed for a British Knighthood by Tony Blair in 2000. The UK has happily taken the money and the power that makes it central to everything that happens in the world.

If British don't want to be involved in every big game, they can as well leave the Security Council, give up their nuclear powers and look at their own issues. Somehow I doubt it is going to happen.

That great amount of power should come with some responsibility. I don't believe in bombing for peace ever. But I believe that the countries accumulating power and weapons over others should show some degree of responsibility and solidarity when other human beings are going through what Syrians are going. Otherwise we should have allowed Holocaust to continue, or the Serbs to kill anybody they pleased.

burstingbaboon · 31/08/2013 15:13

That's ok camaleon. We all have our opinion. It's not about Syria it's just every week we get news another British soldier is dead, someone is killed here... Etc so why arab countries don't get involve? Thats the part that I don't understand?
If they get involved, how it's going to help civilians there or here ? I think it will lead to much bigger problems.

burstingbaboon · 31/08/2013 15:14

They I am referring to UK

camaleon · 31/08/2013 15:23

I would need to go country by country to attempt any guess on why different Arab countries are not intervening. To start, they know the size of the Syrian army, the biggest remaining in the region, along with Iran.

Second, they ARE doing something. They are dealing with over 1 million refugees which is causing huge issues in territories such as Jordan and Northern Iraq.

Third, Assad has been an allied and, in principle, he is fighting extremists groups such Al-Qaeda. To fight Assad is supporting, indirectly, groups that are meant to be terrorists.

The UK wants to send a message to punish Assad and to warn Iran. It is not clear what the other Arab countries would get from this. And the Palestinian issue/Israel makes any Arab movement incredibly sensitive (remember Israel has nuclear weapons too)

SubliminalMassaging · 31/08/2013 17:50

Look what they are doing to tourist when they go there or when they take kids and mothers in UK have to go to extreme to get them back. They were cutting people in Bosnia- same Arabs .....
They are who they are and they should solve it within.

bursting i have no idea what you are talking about now, but Bosnians are not Arabs, and you seem to think that Arabs and Muslims are the same thing.

Look what who is doing to tourists when the go where exactly? I'm sorry to say you are in danger of sounding as though you are on an ignorant anti-muslim, anti-immigration rant now. God knowa I have some concerns of my own about the way this country has been affected by mass immigration in recent years, but I don't think it has anything AT ALL to do with what is happening in Syria now.

Original poster
ThatVikRinA22 · 31/08/2013 17:52

burstingbaboon - do you mind me asking where you orginate from? you said earlier you are not from the UK but live here now - (hope i got that right as memory is fuzzy after 6 pages...)

OP posts:
dexter73 · 31/08/2013 17:55

vicarinatutu - another reason why you can't bomb a chemical weapons depot here.

SubliminalMassaging · 31/08/2013 17:56

Sorry bursting I have just seen your first post, so I understand your perspective a bit more now, and it's nice that you think we in the UK give so much of ourselves and get so little in return in respect of helping and welcoming immigrants, but with respect I still feel that your anger at people you think are taking advantage of our hospitality should colour the way we think about Syria - just because both sets of people in question are muslim. It is perhaps a natural emotional response to feel like that sometimes but it is also the wrong emotional response and we must not succumb to it. I hope we are better than that.

SubliminalMassaging · 31/08/2013 17:57

should NOT colour the way you think - sorry!

Original poster
ThatVikRinA22 · 31/08/2013 18:08

the borders of these countries were drawn up and set by colonials in the 1920s.

there is a good piece in the washington post about what will happen if nothing is done.

here

OP posts:
CarpeVinum · 31/08/2013 18:09

but to disable their ability to use CW on their own people could be done by remotely striking with missiles

Were I living anywhere near a CW plant/stockpile, not sure I'd find the concept of it being blown up conforting.

How do you make sure you don't bascially release all the toxic stuff and spread it far and wide ?

AgentZigzag · 31/08/2013 18:21

Don't know how true it is, but Sky was saying the government is moving prisoners into military installations.

Which is why the US wanted to get a move on, before they moved too many.

burstingbaboon · 31/08/2013 18:44

I know Bosnians are not Arabs and I know not all Muslims are Arabs. What I meant to say , when war was in Bosnia , terrible war , Arab countries were sending MujAhideens who were killing everyone who was not muslim/ Arab!
They didn't care for no one else .
Now when they are fighting among them west has to jump on.
At any point I don't agree with what is happening I was just trying put across that UK is Samaritan who ends up losing on every side.
I am from EU country but living here 15 yrs. I have seen UK and people are taken many times for gratent. As a nation you are too good. Through my posts - if you read them all- I was trying to put that across.
Uk will be used, then again extremist will decide to make attack in some form. Thanks God for inteligence you have here so they prevented things from happening few times.
Maybe I come across as someone who doesn't care , I do but why more soldiers put at risk , why? You have given so much to so many countries and to so many people?!
Still I think strongly they should deal with a things themselves or with a help od Arab/ Muslim neighbours.

camaleon · 31/08/2013 18:46

Of course Assad is preparing for retaliation. This is not Iraq. Everything seems to indicate that he has weapons of mass destruction (as so does the UK) which means he can hit back to some level.
And of course it is better to attack by surprise. However, Obama and Cameron have to answer to their voters and tax payers so cannot just go into a war of these dimensions without any debate at Congress/Parliament level (at least the UK has explained its position; the US and France have not)

burstingbaboon · 31/08/2013 18:46

Graten= granted

camaleon · 31/08/2013 18:48

Bursting, I admire your incredibly nice image of the UK. The UK has not become the incredibly powerful nation it is by being the Samaritan of the world. A big part of the fights among Middle Eastern countries has been orchestrated by the UK and its interests in the region.
They are not losing anywhere..