To think cutting a upper frenulum (lip tie) just in case...

[SHarri13]

...is crazy. There seems to be a large amount of online hysteria about upper frenulums at the moment and plenty of talk in one certain site (not mn) I'm on of cutting them just in case of issues later in life.

My main concern is that a frenulum between the top lip and gums in normal and the lines seem to be blurred as to what is normal and what is an issue.

AIBU to think this is a crazy idea?

YABNU and YABU. I think there's a lot of talk because it actually impacts on feeding (did for me). Cutting it if it has an adverse impact is no bad thing. But I agree that doing it just in case if there are no problems is silly.

FWIW I didn't get DD's snipped - would have had to go private. In the end she fell and partially broke it (which is common apparently so no need to snip) but her feeding prior to this was atrocious.

Marking my place! DS (17mo) has an uncorrected lip tie. It is v thick and until he was well over a year blanched if top lip was flanged. I think it was a big part of our bf difficulties, but he also had uncorrected tongue tie so impossible to apportion blame. The dentist says from his point of view it's something to keep an eye on but not worry about yet.

I know what you mean, I think I'd have hunted down a private practitioner to cut if one of my children had been unable to feed because of it. On inspection my older two have quite thick upper frenulums but I wasn't aware of them when they were still BFing so it wasn't an issue. I read about them when the youngest was newborn and his was thick so of course I put his shallow latch down to this.

It certainly seems to be a new 'hot' topic in the baby online baby circuit at the moment.

Nothing like a bandwagon.

My dd has a gap in her front teeth and has outgrown the worst of the feeding now (20 months) but we had her tongue tie snipped so not worried about speech issues.

YANBU and I agree it does appear to be the latest fad. It is not the frenum that causes problems with teeth later on but the fibrous band that it is attached to. This stops the bone fusing in the midline & creates a space between the front teeth. Snipping the frenum does not get rid of the fibrous band. It can be removed surgically but it is not a pleasant procedure.
A ripped frenum is an uncommon injury usually the result of non accidental injury.

Interesting, I didn't realise it was a hot topic at the moment. My DS has one and we are being referred to the local ENT clinic to see if they think it's worth operating on.

We had a few problems with latch for a couple of months (top lip would not flange) but he now just feeds with a shallow latch. His teeth came in early so now I get a burning sensation as they dig into me during the whole feed.

The worst thing though is his wind. He farts/burps CONSTANTLY and I can only assume this is because he takes in so much air as he feeds thanks to the tie. He sometimes wakes up every 30 minutes at night because he's uncomfortable.

So I'm going to say YABU because at the moment I would love to get it snipped just in case it helped him feed and sleep better, for both of our sakes.

Oh and I had major problems with my teeth, rated 8.5/10 in terms of how bad they were by a Harley St dentist. I can't prove it definitively but I display all the typical problems with my jaw and teeth that untreated tongue and lip tie can result in.

I would hate my son to have the same problems - I spent so many hours in the dentist's chair and still have considerable issues with eating now.

I'm seeking to get this addressed in my 15month old but cannot find anyone to take me seriously.

The best I got was a breastfeeding counsellor that thanked me for bringing him to her as she'd never seen it before even though she is the tongue tie expert of the area.

Feeds with top teeth planted at base of nipple are NOT comfortable.

I had a frenectemy (sp?) when I was 10 to loosen my top lip for orthodonture. It grew back in my teens.

I would imagine doing it in a baby would also grow back.

My DD has a lip tie, so severe that I cannot turn her lip back to see if it blanches! She was unable to feed properly, partly due to the lip tie and being unable to flange out her lips, even on a bottle she couldn't get a seal, and partly due to tongue tie. She's mostly grown out of her problems, we will wait and see if it affects her speech.

If I have another baby and they have feeding problems I will definitely go private and get them assessed for TT and lip tie, and if in doubt get them snipped.

I didn't realise it was relatively common! DD 9 has one and we had terrible problems with his latch, to the extent of getting a BF support worker out. Nothing helped and we eventually went on to sippy cups with expressed milk before giving up entirely when he was 7 months.

when his teeth came through he had an enormous gap in the middle which made Terry-Thomas' look mild in comparison. I took him to GP and also to two dentists but they wouldn't touch it!

The frenulum has stretched as he has got older- his lip no longer turnes inside out when he smiles, but he still has a big gap and I think it has affected his speech slightly

I think DD (5 months) has this. We had a lot of trouble latching and her latch was always on the shallow side (though not so bad now). However DH has told me to stop looking for things to be wrong with her so I've never mentioned it! If she's feeding ok for now should I just keep an eye on it?

I would Faith. I had a similar reaction from DH, midwives, etc. I asked the midwife who came out after her birth about tongue tie, and said there was no physical reason why she wasn't feeding, and so I didn't want to bring it up. That was before I saw the lip tie. I got a referral to a specialist regarding her lip, and he assessed her for tongue tie too. But this was when she was 8 weeks old, she was too old for a quick snip and they didn't want to put her under GA as she was able to feed by then (albeit badly). So I doubt they would do much for a 5 month old who is feeding OK.

Got a private quote. £90 for consultation, £290 for surgery

DD1 has a quite severe lip tie and BF was a bit painful to start with (at beginnings of feeds but fine once going) but we managed to keep going to a year with no real problems.

She's going to have a gap, but then DH and his mother do without having a lip tie. She's having speech therapy but that's more to do with prior hearing issues and she's able to form all of the shapes needed for letter sounds.

I'm not to worried about hers. I'm not going to ask for anything to be done about it unless there's a problem later. She doesn't appear to have a lip tie of any kind (DH had one so it was assessed). The dentist advised us to ensure she cleans her front teeth well as sometimes the bits near the tie get missed.

YABU.

And I would also like to point out that in a huge number of cases of upper lip tie, there will also be a tongue tie present, usually posterior.

DS1 had endless problems caused by his tongue and upper lip ties which went undiagnosed until he was 6yo, and is having to undergo early orthodontic treatment to correct his entire orofacial structure which has been distorted by the movements that his tongue has made to compensate for lack of lift at the back of his tongue.

How much do you actually know about the problems that ties can cause?

If you are actually interested in educating yourself about this subject, then Dr Kotlow's work is a good starting place. He is one of the leading experts in the world in this field.

I have no experience of frenulum cutting for lip ties, but I'm an adult with no frenulum so I thought I'd comment.

Mine was removed when I was about 9 or 10 simply because of dental problems. I wore a brace, had awful teeth with gaps and so it was taken away. I have a lasting memory of it being done under a local anaesthetic, it didn't hurt but I was completely terrified. Afterwards I stayed with my Nan and I remember spending half that summer eating very sloppy mashed potato because chewing regular foods was impossible.

Its probably paranoia but I think my nose twitches slightly when I talk because it's not there. I'm really conscious of it actually. Sensibly though it was needed and I wouldn't have straight teeth today if I hadn't had it done.

It's not something I think I'd want done to another child unless absolutely necessary, though I imagine doing it at a younger age would be less traumatic than leaving it until the child is older as I was.

I had upper lip tie cut when I was 9. Dd had lip tie, which caused a few probs feeding but I found feeding lying down helped. There are some good resources on web with position suggestions to help when this is an issue. Hoping she wont need a cut later but we'll see.

Dds tongue tie was diagnosed and corrected by 4 weeks, but her lip tie wasn't diagnosed till she was 18 months. The dentist said it was cosmetic and wasn't causing problems with teeth, even though she has a big gap. I wouldn't do anything about it, although maybe, in hindsight I might have done if I knew it was causing problems with feeding. We need got bf on track even after the tongue tie correction and maybe the lip tie is why. I don't know.

Never, not need.