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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think there is a stigma attached to taking up Free School Meals?

420 replies

cingolimama · 29/08/2013 13:33

Would really value MNers experience here. DH and I have had a pretty disastrous year financially (redundancy for DH, drying up of contracts for me). However we are both working hell for leather to turn this around. In the meantime we're eligible for FSM, which frankly would be a big help. I also know that it helps the school gain a Pupil Premium.

But I'm a bit nervous about this. I don't want my daughter to be "targeted for help" as I believe anyone benefiting from FSM is (but perhaps I'm being idiotic - DD could surely use a booster in maths dept.) I also don't want any social stigma attached to this. It's a mixed school socially, but the majority is very middle class. Has anyone had any negative experience of taking this up? Or AIBU and it will all be fine?

OP posts:
ToysRLuv · 31/08/2013 19:22

Friday: That's not what I said. The government can analyse away, but should keep in mind that any links like these will be seen as statements and truths by some, if not by many or most. How the government presents measures matters to the larger picture and in the long term.

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 31/08/2013 19:23

Of course attracting the PP is good for everyone. But the fact it's good doesnt excuse the other groups left out. It should t be acceptable that those kids are left out. Especially as you can have two children both suffering in exactly the same way and only one qualifies for the meal and the support.

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 31/08/2013 19:23

Shouldn't

curlew · 31/08/2013 19:29

"The reason why the government won't do targeted measures based on ethnicity, even if they could be well founded, is due to the fear of being perceived as racist. Well, I see this current set-up being a bit "poorist"."

But there are programmes directed towards black boys - another group that significantly underachieves. Or shouldn't that happen either because not all black boys under achieve?

ToysRLuv · 31/08/2013 19:29

Curlew: I'd like to think that failing children should be identified as early as possible and given the help they needed, whether they receive fsm or not. Nothing needs to be done if a child is not failing. Assumptions and predictions are unnecessary and can even become self-fulfilling prophecies if the child on fsm is aware of the fsm -pp link and/or tge poverty=stupidity discourses.

stephrick · 31/08/2013 19:31

I'm a school dinner lady, our system is set up so nobody knows who is FSM apart from us. It is a fingerprint system and £2.10 is deposited into their account daily. My children were on FSM for 2 years and benefited from reduced fees for trips also. Mine never felt inferior, many children are on FSM, at my school I would say 25%. It also enables pupils that receive FSM a bursary and free bus pass when in further education. note to curlew, my DD is off to Cardiff Uni in 3 weeks to study English and Philosophy.

ToysRLuv · 31/08/2013 19:31

Are there, curlew? I'm surprised. I wonder how black people feel about that.

curlew · 31/08/2013 19:32

"poverty=stupidity "

Where did that come from?

ToysRLuv · 31/08/2013 19:35

However, I accept that I'm a bit of an idealist and a liberal humanist with socialist leanings to boot, so if I could set the school system up from scratch it would look very different..

curlew · 31/08/2013 19:36

"Are there, curlew? I'm surprised. I wonder how black people feel about that"

Why would they think anything but that the education system is trying to fix a situation where something has gone wrong? Like girls underachieving in maths- boys in literacy......were you not aware of all these interventions?

ReallyTired · 31/08/2013 19:38

Schools do track the affect that different ethnity, gender, social class has on achievement. However there would be a huge outcry if (white working class) boys were given extra funding to help close the gap.

I believe that pp is fair and helps all the children in the class. It means that teachers can be more imaginative with school trips.

"Especially as you can have two children both suffering in exactly the same way and only one qualifies for the meal and the support."

The fact that some families are better off on benefits than working is a seperate issue. Some children suffer because their parents are crap at budgeting rather than because their parents have a low income. Should this really be a problem of the state?

ToysRLuv · 31/08/2013 19:39

That was a short-cut for a relevant aspect of the benefit bashing discourse.

ReallyTired · 31/08/2013 19:42

"poverty=stupidity "

Nah! You can underachieve without being a total failure.

A child on fsm may need extra encouragement to apply to university Oxbridge or consider a career in medicine rather than being a care assistant.

ToysRLuv · 31/08/2013 19:44

Yes, curlew, I am. Ds is still at pre-school. I would be weirded out to be told that ds is disadvantaged just for being a boy, so he will automatically be allocated extra funds for tutoring, counselling, etc. He might be disadvantaged, but, equally, he might not be. I don't want it to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why label?

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 31/08/2013 19:45

By"exactly the same way" I mean a working family struggling to make ends meet or finding it impossible after all the cuts and the fuel and food cost rises. And a family on benefits also struggling to feed and clothe the children.

And a parents inability to budget is not the child's fault. Any more than it would be the child's fault If he had a deadbeat parent who spent the last tenner of the benefits on fags and booze than heating or food. The difference is there's someone to help out the latter child.

curlew · 31/08/2013 19:45

Well, if you think that "not achieving potential" and "stupidity" are synonyms, then I think I'm beginning to see where the the communication problem lies........

ToysRLuv · 31/08/2013 19:46

Yes, I am unaware, that is..

stephrick · 31/08/2013 19:49

My DS who is no longer on FSM requires no extra encouragement, he aware of his own capabilities. Maybe you assume that children of a low income have no support. I agree that some might not give a s**t, but that does not happen in my home. I am a single parent sending a DD to Uni in 3 weeks, as will my DS in 3 years time.

ToysRLuv · 31/08/2013 19:52

I don't benefit bash or subscribe to the relevant negative discourses, although there are plenty who do, I'm just bringing this stuff up as something to think about when singling out groups and making assumptions/predictions. I can see the nuances between underachieving and "stupid", but I bet not all will (nor will they necessarily want to).

spanieleyes · 31/08/2013 20:02

Those on free school meals who need additional support will receive it.
Those on free school meals who don't need additional support won't receive it.
Those not on free school meals who need additional support will receive it.
Those not on free school meals who don't need additional support won't receive it.

But the facts are that there are ( percentage wise) more children on FSM who need support than children not on FSM. Which is why additional funds are provided.

ReallyTired · 31/08/2013 20:32

stephrick
If you had £500 to improve the education of your children how would you spend it?

Every child is an individual. It may well be that one child needs one to one tutition to learn to read, another child needs councelling, another child would benefit from a gifted maths summer school, another child would benefit from swimming lessons ... guitar .. . ad nauseum.

Prehaps parents should fill out a questionaire so that their views on how the money can be best spent is taken into consideration. However teachers should keep the final say on how the pp is spent.

friday16 · 31/08/2013 20:39

Quite, curlew. Aside from Toys' relentless use of the word "discourse", which tells you that academia is not far away, their whole argument smacks of an academic enthusiasm for "rational" solutions that they can get a paper out of ahead of pragmatic solutions that work.

Using FSM to target PP is a broadbrush solution, and no-one is denying that. However, it has the advantage of delivering resources ahead of the problems, rather than - as you point out - afterwards. Dealing with academic failure is massively, massively more expensive than stopping it from happening in the first place, and if the effect of tying PP to FSM is to splurge resources to those that don't actually need it, then unless that splurging is factors of three or more it's still much cheaper than allowing problems to develop and then trying to fix them.

Identifying "academic underperformance" or whatever their phrase is will be very hard. It means more testing, more reporting, more standardised assessment. It means nuanced judgements about expectations, and it's almost inevitable that such a system will only deliver resources long after the problems have become embedded. For children not in receipt of FSM who fall behind there are other mechanisms, (SA, SA+, Statements, IEPs, etc, etc, etc) and in some cases resources follow those interventions. But it's too late.

PP is a noble attempt to take money from the leafy suburbs and pump it into schools that can make a difference. If people don't like it, the onus is on them to show why their proposal is better. And vague wittering about "discourses" and, I suspect, "narratives" isn't good enough.

friday16 · 31/08/2013 20:45

Toys, on this page:

poverty=stupidity discourses

benefit bashing discourse.

relevant negative discourses

Is it some sort of sociology tic?

CorrinaKedavra · 31/08/2013 20:48

"Those on free school meals who need additional support will receive it.
Those on free school meals who don't need additional support won't receive it.
Those not on free school meals who need additional support will receive it.
Those not on free school meals who don't need additional support won't receive it"

That's how I have always assumed pupil premium worked.

So as long as free meals are administered sensitively the child is not singled out in any way.

ToysRLuv · 31/08/2013 20:53

Ok. Why change anything? A square peg in the round hole sort of fits after a lot of ramming. Never mind the hole getting completely buggered long term. So, what do you do to prevent fsm children from failing? Do you give them extra homework just in case? Do teachers not react to changes in individual children's performance early enough to make a difference, anyway? Or are non-fsm children
"allowed" to fail, because they are not on the "predictions list"?

The fact that I use certain, very valid, wordings is irrelevant. Yes, let's take the piss. What do those pesky academics know about the "real world"? Grin It's not like the advisors they use in the government are.. well.. academics? Not that they are always listened to, from the looks of it.