to try and settle the 'which is cheaper, junk or cooked from scratch' debate once and for all

[IceBeing]

I have seen both sides of this recently on MN and on the box.

So. submit your meal plans here.

1. Choose junk or home cooked

1. Give a shopping list plus price for a weeks worth of food for a family of 4, assuming no reliance on a 'store cupboard' and no meal sharing.

1. Give an estimated weekly cooking time plus shopping time.

1. indicate if your plan relies on a local aldi/lidl etc.

Lets sort this the JEFF out please.....

To be honest the original recipe does call for more and it's bloody lovely with more but it was fine with one.

Def take the point of "flavoring" but I personally don't think I can make risotto half as tasty as with HM stock and the Cajun rice is a bit meh without the liver - and if you can count a roast as a full meal (assuming everyone else has veg and spuds and not just a plate of meat!) then I am bloody well counting my risotto and rice and noodle dishes - the major difference is more carbs but I don't think you need anymore animal products than I'm adding

Damnit, supposed to be doing a vegan challenge and now all I want is chicken liver!

sqoosh you should try the Cajun rice, really break down the liver so it's more mince like rather than big chunks of it

All my chicken dishes do have some meat from the bird in them, it won't be the biggest ingredient but protein shouldn't be, should it?!

I am always wary of generalisations when it comes to discussing people as groups such as 'the poor'.

Yes, I used to be wary, too. Then I became one of the poor, and discovered how very much we (largely) have in common. Most of what we have in common is problems, which I had completely failed to comprehend when I was a liberal-minded 'rich' person.

Like, for example, cramped dwellings, running out of electricity, having to walk past the worthwhile offers because there's NO spare cash, and needing tremendous ingenuity to put together an adequate and varied diet.

Amberleaf are you talking to me? I am virtually a vegan as I do avoid dairy but I call myself a veggie (upthread) as I do eat our girls' eggs - technically to be a vegan I would not eat eggs either. I have spent long periods of my life as a vegan and it is hard work - having hens has made it easier for me and I am now more relaxed about just being a veggie.

My husband does occasionally eat meat but because proper meat is expensive, it's not that often and he's happy with that.

But I suspect that you really just wanted to make your dig and that you are not really interested in my answer.

littlemog fair enough. I take it that you don't want to eat any part of an animal. Are you vegan or vegetarian?

I respect that, but I want to eat animal flesh. If you don't respect that I expect you to accept it.

I'm willing to eat a large part of the animal, probably more than most people, so that might make me better than most on a recycling level.

But I don't want to eat all of it, and some of it - well, I don't know where it goes. Probably animal feed or fertiliser but I can't say, and I'm not being flippant.

I dunno, I think you can have your chicken cake and eat it up to a point

I don't have a problem with the idea of animals being raised to be fed to humans. I do care about their welfare in birth, life and death. I also care about the effect too much meat has on my own body. I also care about the mass production of meat putting environmental pressure on the world. I don't know, maybe I only believe in something wishy washy like sustainable meat production?

It's the poor treatment of animals I can't abide. I'm not fully there but am gradually moving towards making my diet fully vegan apart from buying produce I absolutely hand on heart know has been treated decently (including good abattoir practices)...I'm still researching it to be honest so forgive not fully formulated arguments

I do appreciate this will eventually mean having to go fully vegan out of my own kitchen, which is why it's a gradual process alongside doing my research

My theories are also a bit mixed in that I'll eat beef from this particular farmer I've found but I still don't like that cows are artificially inseminated then have their calves immediately taken from them in order to sustain milk production. So, for the most part, I now avoid dairy....

But it does take time and effort and practice to change your habits to conform with your ideologies when you're also working on a budget

Variety is one of the biggest reasons for embracing 'junk' food, ime. Proper nutritionists will tell you how crucial it is: eating variations on a theme of pasta w/tomatoes, day in, day out, will leave you malnourished. Trufact. Doesn't matter how well you've balanced your proteins, your diet must vary. I've developed some food intolerances lately, which restrict my options still further.

Hence my gratitude for things like bratwurst, frozen chinese & indian dishes, lamb burgers (real lamb too dear,) and many other bits & bobs I would have turned my wealthier nose up at.

Amber - I like (good quality meat and feel a lot healthier when it is part of my diet. I love pulses, but the don't love me. I can happily eat what is a vegan diet for a few days at a time, then it will turn on me and I'll be horribly ill. Then, I'll be pre-menstrual and all that will shut up my food cravings and shakes is a bit of high quality protein. Not a lot, but something that can give me 30g of it, in one sitting. Vegan does not cut it, then. We're built as omnivores and not everyone can veer from that path and remain healthy.

So, I now eat meat. I have 2 boys with ASD and severe food texture issues, so eating meat or fish is what gets protein into them. Without enough protein in their diets, their behaviour is shite, to be frank. I eat very differently now than I did 10 years ago, since there's not just me to think about. I've noticed that I even cater to the boys more than me for lunches in the school holidays, which means that I eat far more wheat/bread than my guts like.

Anyhow, like it or not, I do eat meat, now, and I buy it for my family. I am long term battle weary from getting protein, of any sort into my children's diets. I do buy the highest welfare meat that I can source with them in tow, that they will actually eat. I do feel very guilty if an animal has led less than a perfectly happy life, then had to be killed for food, only to be thrown away, so yes, I do think that it shows respect to eat everything possible.

Good post our

Funny because as I get older my system has started to work in opposite to yours - too much meat (a meal a day two or three days in a row) and I have chronic stomach pain for days after

I have CFS. I wilt very noticeably without meat. Sad but true: my symptoms get much worse. So does my depression (there's some metabolic product of eating meat, which is antidepressant. I forget how this works.)

Really?! Well I never - my depression has lifted considerably since focusing on a more vegetarian diet

Sigh, off to the weirdo corner I go

But I suspect that you really just wanted to make your dig and that you are not really interested in my answer

What like you when you ignored my post about my viewpoint coming from actually being poor?

My question was not a dig, it was a genuine question.

People who can afford to eat ethical meat banging on at people who can't, are IMO full of it. as I said, the entire animal based food industry is unethical, so either stick to being a vegan or don't preach to anyone else.
better still, just be happy with being a vegan and save the preaching.

Americas - around my period, red meat does that to me. It actually keeps me awake at night. I eat fish or seafood 4 or 5 times a week. Rarely oily fish, though. It gives me migraines.

Good to hear about your depression, ATB. It's true, of course, that a varied diet with lots of fresh stuff will help depression and many other illnesses.

I imagine that someone who felt tormented by guilt at eating animals would feel depressed by an omnivorous diet! It would be in that person's interests to master the alternatives, as you did.

I've read about half the thread, so apologies if it has moved on.

I spend, on average, about £80 per week to feed a family of five (2 adults, 3 children, ages 9, 6 and 1. All children are good eaters, eg 9 year old probably eats as much as I do, and 1 year old eats ridiculous amounts). I buy organic stuff mostly, and free from foods (gluten and dairy allergies). I assume, that if I were to buy value stuff, I would easily cut my shopping bill in half. I cook everything from scratch (allergies mean ready meals/processed/pre packaged stuff is not possible) but I don't think I could get the same level of food for the same money if I bought ready meals.

I can't be bothered to list out everything I cook (and would have no clue as to calorie content at all) but yesterday I made bologna use as follows:

1 packet mince
1 jar passata
2 tins tomatoes
1 tin lentils
2 courgettes
4 carrots
Onion (about 3 tablespoons of frozen chopped onions - my one 'luxury' processed food!)
Any other wilting veg hanging around (I bunged in a small handful of green beans I had lurking in the veg drawer)

Estimated cost: £10ish.

This fed:
all 3 children twice (equivalent of 2 adults per sitting, so 4 portions)
4 adults for dinner
4 x portions for eldest to take to school for lunch. So 12 portions in all (and none of us are light eaters). Of course pasta/rice has to be added to this to make a meal, bt even with that added in you are looking at a cost of around £1.25ish/portion, and that is using organic produce. Not exactly expensive for the quality.

If I really could halve costs by buying value/not organic (not something i have costed, but i continually told how stupidly expensive organic produce is) then it would be around 60p/portion, so £2.40 for a family of 4. Equivalent to some of the junk meals quoted in the first half of the thread, and far more nutritious. Also not a time consuming meal to put together - I can get it from fridge to table in 30 minutes and I am no expert chef.

RhondaJean - but that's more expensive than the jars of pasta sauce I have in my cupboard, at 39p for a jar, so no saving to be adding herbs and stock cube to a 32p tin of toms.

Gosh this thread, and related, shocks me. I cannot believe Loopy is getting such a hard time (and I say that as a 25 years+ vegetarian).

Her meal plan is exactly what people sticking to a budget should be doing (and what my v MC, and rich, MIL did throughout the 70s & 80s - my Gran did similar in the '30s onwards but was better at cooking with unusual cuts than are available these days). One joint, one pack/cut cheaper meat to last a week - she gets the best out of what she buys. 2 "servings" meat per week, but cooked to last, so more than 2 meals. If everyone ate like this there wouldn't be such a problem with meat production in the first place.

I agree that if people could buy cheap, unpopular cuts of meat more easily it would be better, but for most due to retail availability this isn't an option. Loopy's comments about the meat on a free range chicken illustrate that better reared meat can be more cost effective - but who could blame those when this is not the case and have a family to feed.

Part of the problem is exemplified by some of the comments on this thread and others: comparing the costs of a ready meal lasagne and home made one - a lasagne is not supposed to be a "cheap meal", and it is time consuming to cook properly. The fact lasagne is viewed as a week day meal shows our national food confusion! Of course it is expensive if cooked with real meat, cheese etc (as opposed to reformed meat). It is supposed to be so!

Similarly comments on the cost of eggs: in what world is an omelette a "cheap" meal - it was never intended as such! Even in the 1970's it was an indulgence. However a Spanish omelette with lots of potato would only take 5 eggs and feeds 4 easily with leftovers for lunch. Also 2 eggs will make enough batter for Yorkshire puddings (large) for four or 12 pancakes for 2 meals etc.

I think this thread and the other one have actually exemplified exactly what Jamie is talking about - many people seem to have no idea about what is a cheap meal/what food is in season (of course baking potatoes are expensive now it is August FFS!)

Berating someone like Loopy, who is actually feeding her family a well balanced diet on a limited budget is just silly and the comments on this thread show why there is so much food confusion.

I hardly ever post, but feel really cross about this actually. I think Jamie has a point - he has been an arse about it - but, cooking makes sense. Where else in the world, other than the USA, would you have a thread accounting for pennies in terms of real food vrs pre packed shite? Everywhere else people would assume the cost of proper food worth the expenditure even if slightly more (as we did in the past given the reduced budget we now nationally allow for food)l

Hiya back

No saving but no additional cost, less additives (recognise salt in stock cube etc) and to be completely fair, any jarred pasta sauce never mind the cheap one is vile when you get used to making your own.

Frugal queens blog has some great recipes and most are costed. if you made a lasagne with the same amount of cheese/meat as a frozen asda/iceland job, I reckon it would be just as cheap. the cheap frozen meals and steak pies etc contain tiny amounts of meat and bulk ot with cheaper carbs.

interesting thread.

MeaBea - 5 eggs to feed 4 people would have way too little nutrition for us. i do one with 6 large eggs for 2 of us. At about 100cals per egg, that's 300cals of protein, say 2/300cals from the potato and peppers. Served with salad i would consider this a low calorie meal for us and would probably be still hungry.

In the UK, we pay far less for our food than say, France, Italy, Germany. And far less as a proportion of our income. People often have a very skewed idea of how their income is spent - as little as possible on food, and the rest on 'stuff', i.e. the mobile phones, big tv's , clothes. The way we eat has a big impact on our wellbeing and health. and don't forget that it was the cheap frozen products that had the horsemeat in them...... I actually think Jamie had a point, and there are a lot of excuses made for not eating properly and well.

I'm not convinced I can do a full shop list but I will estimate the fiddley bits!

Meat for the week.

One pack pork mince £4
Whole chicken £3.60
Sausages two packs for £3

That makes the following meals.
Shepherds pie -2 days, some in freezer for toddler lunches
Roast, pie, pasta bake. Some used in sarnies. - 3 meals.
Spicy sausage stew - 2 meals

That's the weeks meals with a pack of sausages leftover in the freezer for the following week.
I spend £10 per week on fruit and veg
Tins maybe £2 a week
Tesco value porridge oats for breakfasts are only £1.30ish
Lunches are flat breads and soup which I spend about £3 a week on.
The other £30 a week comes from store cupboard bits I'm running low on, cleaning products, toiletries and the standard bits like milk, spread, cheese etc.

I make meat last by bulking it out with huge amounts of veg. So the sausage stew would have 6 sausages, two tins tomatoes, leeks (from garden), onions, 3 peppers, peas, green beans. Powdered chilli, herbs from garden.

Also wanted to address the cooking equipment point someone made up thread. I possess a few baking trays, one roasting tin, 2 saucepans and a casserole pot. I manage perfectly well to knock out pies, roasts, stews and baked goods. You get creative with what you've got.

So yeah food shop is around £60 a week, more if we stock up on nappies, less if we don't need toiletries and other household stuff. I can reliably do 7 meals, have meat for a range of lunches, do healthy breakfasts and stick a load of meat and meals in the freezer.

I also agree about foraging and growing. I have a rented garden so have to grow in pots. I have managed to produce tomatoes, leeks, onions, runner beans, peas and herbs this year in 4 average sized pots by time planning and putting effort in with germinating the seedlings indoors etc.

I have an apple and pear tree in the garden and have cultivated a bramble bush in the corner which will produce blackberries. I will also pick berries when I spot them out and about. I always have a bag in my pocket for this purpose.

Baking products can be got cheaply. Ime value flour is just as effective for a quick crumble or pasties as branded flour.

toomany - i agree but that's because he cost of things which are non negotiable are too high. often in a family the only flexibility is food. i read once that in the past people often spent 50% of their income on food and 30% on all other bills, but now it's just 10% on food and the rest on rent/mortgage/bills.

When we lived in the uk DH and i both paid £5-600 per month on train/travel costs, on top of mortgage, gas, leccy etc. Food had to come in under a certain amount because there just wasn't any money left. I would have loved to spend more on food - i often think how the fuck has someone grown/farmed/made this, packaged it, transported it, supermarket sold it, paid staff and overheads and still made a profit?