to hate it when women suggest their menflok are like an extra child?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

If he doesn't step up to the plate, get them to improve and stop enabling the behaviuor.

It's not rocket surgery.

[Crowler]

I totally agree about the gaming thing. My husband games ALL THE TIME. I told my babysitter, who is a lovely young girl that I really adore - if you find a man who plays video games, run in the opposite direction.

I'm sure there are adult men who game and also contribute around the house, but they are sitting on the outside fringes of the distribution.

[Jan49]

I think older generations often divided tasks down gender lines, with cleaning, shopping and cooking being women's work whilst DIY and gardening were done by men. It strikes me that the "female" tasks are the ones that need doing daily and constantly and take up far more time.

Both genders should be capable of doing all tasks even if you choose to divide the chores between you in a particular way, perhaps because one person loves cooking and the other hates ironing. I found it scary when I split up with my ex and realised the one task I never dealt with was setting up the computer and the internet. I would never again want to be in a situation of depending on a partner for anything. Whereas he had many many chores he had to learn to do for the first time.

Doearwigs, it's possibly that your DH would rather do one shirt a day than have to wade through a lot at once, especially if it gives him an excuse to leave you to rush round getting the kids ready in the morning.

[Doearwigsmakechutney]

I agree with loopylupo that the who does what stuff is easier to sort out than responsibility. Wifework is good on this, though has few solutions that I can see. Gaby Hinsliff suggests weekly meetings in Half a Wife, but we tried this, and DH said he didn't want to be accountable to me. I don't want him to be either; I'd much rather we set things up so he looked after some things, I looked after other things, and we both trusted (with good reason!) the other to take full responsibility for that stuff.

[Doearwigsmakechutney]

Jan49 possibly! Though I think the need for an ironed shirt takes him by surprise anew each day. He's 42 FFS - after half a lifetime working, it can't be THAT much of a shock.

[LoopyLupo]

Doearwigsmakechutney That would make my blood boil watching him fart arse about with the bloody ironing board every morning getting in the way. Its one of those 'grit your teeth' moments isn't it. Where you just have to leave them to get on with it instead of taking over.

How do you think he missed the bit about running his life? This fits with dh as well. He has no clue, the simplest things have to be explained and he is not a stupid man, its like all common sense abandons him.

curlew - I do put some of the responsibilty on his mothers shoulders. His mum and his sister did all the housework and cooking while his Dad and dh sat there getting waited om hand and foot. Growing up in that environment is not going to lead to a healthy attitude. Dh has realised that just because I own a vaginia does not mean I am responsible for the housework and the cooking. He has learnt he has two arms and two legs and is just as capable of cleaning the bathroom as me. But it took a while to get there, when we first moved in he would 'gag' when cleaning the toilet. I ignored it. Bloody ridiculous nonsense. He got the hint. I can promise I will not raise boys who 'gag' when cleaning a toilet so yes, I do lay some responsibility at MILs door.

[curlew]

If you meet an adult man who plays video games, run for the hills.

[LoopyLupo]

DH said he didn't want to be accountable to me - This annoys me as well. I feel like saying to dh 'I don't want you to be accountable to me, I am not your bloody mother, get on and do it and we won't even have to talk about it.'

(I am not normally this angry on threads but this is something really close to home atm and its touching a nerve - can you tell )

[Bonsoir]

It really isn't as easy as all that to make men who refuse point blank to do domestic chores (for example) to do them.

[Doearwigsmakechutney]

Loopylupo it definitely touches a nerve with me. I don't WANT these things to be issues. I want DH to grow up, take responsibility, and then we'll both have more time to do nice, fun stuff. I really don't want to spend lots of time angsting about these issues.

Finally leaving the house. Back later...

[DeckSwabber]

My own experience was that I knew my partner could cook (a bit), could iron, had the capacity to manage finances, but before we had children none of this really came up. We had a small flat which was easy to keep clean, and both worked long hours including evenings. There was enough money for everyday things and the house got a bit messy but so what?

Then kids come along, I'm at home much more, pick up the slack in the house.

After a few years realise partner is hopeless with money (dangerously hopeless), considers the garden, kids welfare and education 'Deck's territory' and has got used to just leaving everything to 'someone else' to do. The few jobs that do get done come with a 'thank me' face. Lo and behold, a manchild is born. And I find I have turned into a nag .

Apparently he does lots of cooking for his new wife and expects the children to do housework on their visits.

Perhaps doing all the housework was my punishment for having kids and taking away his beer money.

[littlemog]

If you meet an adult man who plays video games, run for the hills.

This.

I cannot imagine being with a man who liked computer games!

[curlew]

Why would anyone want to be with a man who can't/won't look after himself and his family?

I am genuinely baffled by this!

[littlemog]

Me too - it's so weird. And to the poster above who hoped that the helpless man-child is a dying breed - not so I'm afraid.

I know of several men who are like this but their partners are also complicit and one man is not even 'allowed' to cook anything! Ever!! So to those people who cry foul when enabling is mentioned - I have to say that I have seen it happening. Both partners seem to collude in the myth that 'he is hopeless'.

My sister is also bringing up two boys (one approaching his 30s) who live at home and get everything done for them - everything. They have never known anything different and see nothing wrong with the arrangement. I do feel that my sister is at least partly to blame for this.

Personally I could have no respect for this kind of man.

[yellowballoons]

The adult men who I know that play video games, do it in their own time, after other things have been done.

And it has advantages you know! The tv is yours, and you get some peace and "own time". says me speaking from experience
Also, it helps dads, and sons in particular, bond.

[yellowballoons]

I think there is a huge difference between those men who do nothing, and have plenty of time and energy to do it.

Amd those who work 70 hours a week, often in a manual job, who are shattered.

[Purplerain80]

I think it can come down to how you were raised as well I was taught independence from a young age where asy husband was had everything done for him. We've been together 16 yrs and its taken many of those yrs getting to a "meet in the middle" place. Now if I ask for help with the housework he will and after "a few reminders" will make the calls needed etc. but of course from time to time I have a few grit my teeth moments! And I fully blame the mother in law!!
Also we have a son and daughter and I have worked hard over the yrs to teach our son independence and responsibility, I'm determined that our son will not grow up like his father did!

[differentnameforthis]

This thread is making me laugh...he cannot act like a child, but a lot of you would treat him like one by putting constraints on him..

• no gaming console (dh has one, we often used to play together, he is/was old enough to know when to stop & do house/husband/life stuff)
  

• no guitar (my dh is teaching himself to play, he is pretty good & it has helped him in lots of ways)
  

• sport (playing or watching)
  

All those ruling out computer games. How many of you have facebook & play games on there? Play ipone/ipad/other smart phone games? Watch soaps? Have any other hobby? Mumsnet? A lot of the names on this thread are ones I see on MN A LOT! So what is the difference between having a virtual conversation & a virtual football game?

I can just imagine if a guy on here posted this thread about a woman & put to run a mile form women who

Mumsnet
facebook
play games on iphone etc
excessively shop for clothes/shoes/make up
won't look after the car

[differentnameforthis]

I cannot imagine being with a man who liked computer games

But how does that differ from having inane convos on a computer?

[FreudiansSlipper]

YANBU

I do not like any adult being treatd like a child. Princess behaviour annoys me just as much as men who cba to do things and let their partner who inturn treats them like a silly little boy

The threads who's dh can't use a washing machine/cook/multi task/look after the kids and do housework make me want to smash my iPad to pieces

[FreudiansSlipper]

Why blame the mil it's laziness that stops people doing housework/cooking

I never did anything at home. No cleaning, cooking, washing nothing apart from making odd piece of toast and cups of tea

I was more than capable of doing everything for myself once I left home at 17, no calling home asking how to cook beans on toast its not rocket science. It is a crap excuse that it makes you unable to do anything and to blame mil it's laziness housework is boring if I was lazy I would pretend I was unable to do it if my partner was willing to but I am not

It is not how I shall be bring up ds though as I think it should be shared

[Purplerain80]

Ok so mil is partly responsible, yes agreed tho my husband isn't stupid either and has his own mind so if he wanted to he could've learned these everyday life skills himself, he just had someone else(me) to do it! Maybe it's something to do with age as well, I've found that as he's got older he wants to keep the house nice and presentable. Who knows

[TooTabooToBoo]

Agent yes sorry, was confusing threads by calling you Artex!

..or if it's an adult who's known nothing else from a parent (who makes it nigh on impossible to break free with emotional blackmail and manipulating other people to put pressure on the person)

Again, hits nail on head.

That's not me "blaming" ex's mum, it's how it is. He knows no different . When I tried to get him to understand how he needed to integrate into my life/me into his, he would be all for it until he came back after chatting with his mum, at which point anything we'd decided would suddenly not be good enough one way or another.

She recently said to me, over lunch at their house, "can you see why he'll never want to leave me"

He'll wake up one day, alone, aged 60 and wonder where his life went. So sad.

[FreudiansSlipper]

why is your mil responsible he in a grown adult

no one was indulged more than me but as an adult I take responsibility for my own actions

he is lazy and you have played into it

I have had ex partners with mothers who indulged them yes they expected me to but I didn't

[littlemog]

The only men I have ever met who are in to computer games have been:
a. boring
b. juvenile