DD totally fucked up her GCSEs. AIBU to tell her 'I told you so'?

[TeenTwinsToddlerandTiaras]

Of course I won't but I am very, very cross about it. She got 2 Ds, 2 Es and 3 Fs FFS. All through secondary we have had problems with her being disruptive at school, getting detentions, calls about her not doing her homework or engaging with the lessons, getting into spats with other girls about stuff which did not involve her (sticking up for friends).

She was forecast for 3Cs, 2Ds and 3Es which was bad enough but we hoped she would get the extra C through the exams to get into the college course that she was so excited about doing and which we have supported her in doing even though I have my doubts (performing arts) but I wanted her to do something she enjoyed.

We have lectured her, given her 'pep talks', taken away privileges, shouted, screamed at her and now we have the end result - totally crap grades so she will not be able to do the college course she wanted to do and will have to spend the next year retaking as many as possible at a cost to us. I even frogmarched her to maths club one day as she was so behind but she refused to go again and I could'nt do that every bloody week. Ditto homework club/science club.

She has never been diagnosed with any SENs, her teachers have always stated that she is very bright and would do fine if she would just shut up and listen. She seems to have disengaged with reality and decided that she was going to become a singer/rapper so school was not important. She spends hours writing rap lyrics and listening to that bloody Iggy Azalea (most annoying songs ever). She has even insisted that she will be moving to LA as soon as she is 18 and do whatever it takes to become a 'sooperstarrr' and I fully support her in that 'dream' and hope she can achieve it (not by moving to LA and living in the bins waiting to be discovered though ) but she needs to at least get some qualifications first!

I could bloody shake her very hard. She thinks she knows everything. Aaaarrrrgggh. Any suggestions on what to do with her?

I think teens need to stay in education, or work based training, until they are 17 now. Your dd may not get on the course she wanted - assuming level 3? But she should be offered a level 2 course instead. I think it is also compulsory for students to re-take their English and Maths Gcses at 6th form colleges etc if they haven't achieved a C. I work with students at risk of being NEET (hate that acronym) and in my area this is how it is going to work this year.

"I think it is also compulsory for students to re-take their English and Maths Gcses at 6th form colleges etc if they haven't achieved a C."

That is how it works in our area, Harlot

Thinking you can avoid hard slog used to be an occupational hazard for the young though. It was almost universal in my (long ago) youth and a point of honour to do, or at least to be seen to do, as little work as possible. People who had done well by working hard were rather frowned upon. Intelligent slacker was the aim of the game and realising that this was an impossible goal because you weren't nearly as clever as you thought was part of growing up. Part of me is always rather horrified and shocked when I meet very dedicated and hard working youngsters who know this fact at 11 because they've been doing SATs since age 7 in this more ascetic age. In some ways I think doing it the traditional slacker way with a major fuck up along the way as your dd has done is not necessarily unhealthy. [nostalgic]

It's all about realistic expectations isn't it; not too disimilar from another thread Cory.

Our own dd would like to act. She has attended a theatre school since she was six; she is heavily involved with drama at school (although not doing GCSE drama); she has had major roles in many productions over the years. Also she has singing lessons and took her RSCM silver award; she also plays piano (grade 6).

We will fund RADA and she knows this but she also knows it will not be until she has obtained the qualifications that will allow her to earn a living and has worked for two years. She's not sure what that living will be but if she wants RADA enough she knows what she has to do.

We know many people who have done RADA in search of an acting career. We know one who earnt a living from it and that is nowadays largely from writing rather than acting.

Ultimately I can see our dd working as something like a speech therapist utilising her language/acting talents. I'm not going to stop her dream and will support it as far as is reasonable but she will have to be realistic and be prepared to earn an alternative living. Dreams don't pay the bills and she will need marketable skills to fall back on.

Our dd has been disciplined over her music, techniques and learning lines. I reckon she has less than a 1% chance if she follows her dream. I would love to see her succeed but there has to be some realism in there.

It's not unhealthy in most ordinary careers, Acrylic, but traditional slacking has never been an option for performers. They have always started young and worked hard.

It's fine for an academic to peak in their mid-thirties but a singer needs to get going a lot earlier.

Just popping on again to agree with Cory that music students can be extremely good employees in later life, because they have learnt that being good at something involves working hard at the fundamentals for many hours a day.

When I say theatre school I mean extra-curricula (never sure if there should be an r) not full-time. She goes to mainstream school and always has.

Very similar story and attitude in this household, marriedinwhite. Yes, we will support acting training, but there has to be a Plan B. And before we support anything, we want to see signs of commitment.

To be fair, the people I know who have gone through stage school and not been able to make a living on the stage have often been able to use transferable skills to earn a living elsewhere, even if it's something totally different like working for the local council. A bit like doing a degree in history or English literature: most of our graduates do actually end up in employment if not in the kind of employment they dreamed of.

I know I've told this story before, but my db started out as a musician, was unable to continue but has been very successful as an academic in an unrelated discipline; I have no doubt that he is using his music training, though in an indirect fashion.

Have to agree that she probably wouldn't last two minutes in performing arts.

My daughter is 10, but already dances EVERY day for a minimum of 2 hours a day. She also has weekly vocal coaching. She has danced from a very young age (2) and we have forgone holidays for her to attend summer schools/ workshops etc. even in the holidays she has had 3 ballet classes and two body conditioning classes a week as well as having attended several workshops and a couple of summer courses.

The dance school she attends offer full time courses from 16+ and we have watched many youngsters think it is an easy option and leave after a couple of months. It takes a lot of work to get to the top and the ones who do well on the big shows like BGT and X factor have almost always had a lot of training. Look at the pp who detailed SuBo. Think Attraction this year, George Sampson, flawless, these are not hashed together in the holding room routines. Far from it. They are honed, perfected and then presented to the world.

I agree - the training and discipline are invaluable. My mother was a ballerina and when she gave up dancing altogether spent 25 years building up and running a successful business with my step father.

Tough having a quirky one isn't it though. :)

Aw, I feel for you both, OP!

And, as a secondary teacher, I am familiar with the scenario!

Despite all the swagger, she must be a bit disappointed with herself. These are complex emotions for young teenagers to process or show. If she is like 99% of others I have seen in this situation, she will be feeling very insecure but desperate for someone to blame for not fulfilling her dreams in the future. ('It's not fair, I could have been a big pop star if...')

BEWARE! This is a role you don't want!

My advice is to start from the end. On the surface, be 'supportive'. But do not do anything proactive for her. IMO, your job is to help her along her own way now. But let her come to the conclusions of what she can or can't do herself.

This is really important to an immature little adult. You saying 'but you won't get a visa for LA! Yuo need to do this instead!' translates as 'You can't do this! You have to do what I want you to do!'

Any teen worth their internet access will then respond with 'I'll show you! Stop ruining my perfect future!'

Instead, start at the end together. Right, so let's see what you need to be a big star in LA! (wrestle the sarcasm out of your voice, btw!)

How much is a flight?
How do you get a visa?
Where are you going to stay?
How do you get an agent?
etc.

Let her research this - you help her if you can. Act as if it is actually going to happen. Then she has to 'work backwards'. So a flight is £700? Right, write out your plan of how to save this. So you need a job to get a visa? Ok - what kind of job? Etc.

She will eventually arrive at the same conclusion as you! She needs some qualifications or proof of discipline/achievement. She needs money. She needs a job. She needs a specific goal.

Then it is up to her to sort them all out, with you cheering along from the sidelines!

A maths teacher and I (English) had to conspire this way with a kid who was adamant he didn't need his GCSEs because he was going to be a drug dealer.

He is now a mechanic, with a GCSE in both subjects.

Good luck!!

Yes indeed, married. My ds has always seemed more quirky, but is thankfully still young, so more time to work on him and try to instill some sense of reality. Am clinging to the hope that once he realises that his mates are growing up, he will start considering the same option for himself

Going back to the OP, another thing someone ought to point out to her dd is that the big tantrums and strops on X-factor are to a great extent stage managed: in real life, getting on in performing arts is very much about teamwork and people skills- and organisation.

Excellent advice from Eggsiseggs there.

I don't know, cory. She could be the next Jarvis Cocker, perhaps. This GCSE minor disaster could be just the dose of disaffection she needs to add some humour, humility and social commentary to her rap lyrics and move away from the meaningless, empty, mass produced pap that is x factor. And then she shall have my worship! And become an establishment figure with her own radio 6 show in her very late 40s. You're not in Sheffield are you, TTT&T?

And I would also suggest in the same vein as Eggsiseggs that she checks up the performers she admires, looks at the kind of background they have, what they have done to arrive there, what can she do from where she is now.

Don't do the work for it, don't present it in a negative way (I'm going to prove to you that you can't do this), but make it positive (see if you can find out how this sector works).

Looking back, this is probably how I did deal with dd when she was very young and kept blaming me for not letting her audition for film roles.
-Yes, I can see that it's tough for you, but let's first think about what you can do to give yourself a better chance. Why don't you go and find out what other people have done?

And of course the first thing she found out from google was that people like Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson had been training at stage school for many years before they auditioned for HP and that even Rupert Grint had been attending his local youth theatre; that it's not a case of standing in a line-up and somebody suddenly walks on and instantly spots your star quality.

Sorry, thread has moved on massively! Slow distracted slacker here.My last post was in response to cory @9.43. Agree that Eggsiseggs has v wise advise and big smile and respect to her for transforming the drug dealer wannabe into a respectable mechanic.:)

Acrylic, I think Jarvis Cocker would be a fine role model- didn't he found the Pulp aged 15? That is precisely the sort of thing we're talking about: if she wants to perform, she shouldn't be sitting in her bedroom, she should be out there doing it.

Prints off eggsiseggs post for future reference.

Yes he did.:) And the dd is spending hours writing rap lyrics aged 15/16 so all is not lost! If she keeps going and believing the dream whilst all around her tut at failed exams she can burst onto the music scene in 16 years or so.

eggsiseggs, I take off my hat to you and sweep you a low bow. What a great story and much wise advice.

Writing rap lyrics is good, but it's only a small part of being a rapper. You need to be out there testing what works on an audience, getting used to working with a band, getting used to the whole performance experience and maintaining a certain level of physical fitness. You don't suddenly burst on any scene until you have been doing those things over a long period of time.

I don't blame the OP at all for having always encouraged the child to believe that you can do whatever you dream. We all love our kids, and we want them to reach high and not be negative and depressed.

I do wish however that there was another narrative that we could all use instead. It's just not true that if you want something enough, it will come true. OP says herself, she intended it to mean that commitment and vision will help you handle the hard work, but the child has only heard the bit about dreams coming true and not the bit about hard work. Even her determination (failure makes me stronger) doesn't translate into hard work.

I thought this was mainly a USA thing, and I used to think that there was some code, that people said these things but everyone knew underneath it wasn't really true. I don't think OPs daughter is being unusual- this whole culture of talent spotting on telly does seem to be very damaging to the fact that the teen years are actually an apprenticeship for adult life.

Still, what does work in her favour is she is young, and we have a more flexible world than we used to. One of the students retaking GCSEs with my disabled DD this year was 30. He didn't have any disability, he had just made poor choices when younger. Not the end of the world, he is moving ahead now.

Good post, beastofburden. I do occasionally come across students who have suffered from the "American dream" to the point of losing touch with reality, and sometimes the awakening is very hard indeed.

Not entirely a new thing of course. I also have another family member, highly gifted who has cherished another dream, but never actually taken the trouble to think the costs through and planned to make it happen. After close on 50 years I am beginning to lose patience with hearing that "of course I should have done x instead".

Well, either you wanted to do x and then you should have taken the trouble to find out how to achieve it and what you had to sacrifice, or else you did not want to pay the cost (n terms of sacrificing all other interests) of doing x and then I think it is time to take ownership of that decision.

Not saying the OP's dd has to arrive there yet, she is young and we need to cut her some slack. And as beast says, it is a more flexible world.

Thanks cory

That's exactly what I did myself. I had formal classical training at a music college until I was about 15 (think three grade 8s by the age of 12) and then they sat me down and said, well, you would make a good orchestral player but no solo career for you. Fnacy that? And I thought, hell, no, I'll go to Uni and do modern languages in that case....

But every day, that early training is useful.