to think we should pay for a personal tutor for dd in her GCSE year?

[madmomma]

So dd is 15 and has just sat some of her GCSEs a year early, as seems to be the fashion these days. She's passed her English but has got an F in her maths and a U in her science. Obviously she will sit them again next year, but I am alarmed by the F and the U and I feel it warrants us getting her some personal tuition. I couldn't help her much with either of these subjects as I am more of an english-y persuasion. Her Dad is not able to either (not academic enough). We've had lots of discussions with her maths and science teachers and school seem to be doing what they can, but I think by this point if she is to get Cs next year she would need to be working at at least a E or D now. She already has an hour's maths tuition per week, which costs £20 and she really enjoys it + finds it helpful.

The aibu is because my husband (dd's stepdad) feels that we should be helping her/teaching her ourselves and we are letting her down if we don't. He is adamant that I or he should be spending time doing maths and science practice with her, rather than 'farming her out' to a tutor

I want her to have 4hrs tuition per week for the rest of her school career, which should hopefully help her to hit those Cs next year. I think the total cost would be well over 1k but to my mind it's what money is for and it's totally worth it. We have about 10k saved for insurance against redundancy so it would mean dipping into it, which I think is what concerns dh. Dd's Dad is broke so he can't really contribute.

AIBU to think that this is a vitally important and worthwhile expense for our hardworking but struggling daughter?

My daughter sat some exams last year...they were C's and B's. The school goes into overdrive in the 'proper' GCSE year and targets children that need extra help,and has so many after school revision lessons, and in school holidays too, that I rarely saw her home before 5 o'clock most evenings!

As a result she got mostly A's,so it paid off. I personally wouldn't pay for a tutor. I couldn't afford it anyway.

I'd speak to school first,to see what they have planned, if I were you.

Cory we do have to work with the current system. Have you seen the clearing ads in London for places like the London Business School? Do you know how far down many uni's are on numbers post clearing this year. From next year I reckon circumstances will be such that beyond the RG uni's if prospective students are willing to spend 27K we will be full circle to where year DH was. And then the market will correct and about 10PCT will be the maximum numbers at uni.

I would be prepared to lay money on our dd getting into a RG uni in 2016 - five years ago I thought that was a ludicrous assertion (although she has come on a bit in the last few years but still top average - not exceptional and I reckon will end up with 3-4 A*s, 3-4 A's and the remainder Bs). DD will be favoured I think.

madmomma Does your daughter have any idea what she wants to do after sitting her GCSEs next year? The reason I ask is that it might be worth finding out what the GCSE entry requirements are for the next step (6th form college, vocational training, whatever).

That way, you can focus your resources on key areas. I think a lot can be done in a year, but you risk diluting your efforts/ overwhelming your daughter if you try to take on too much at once.

I agree with posters saying it's worth finding out WHY she got a U in science (is it combined science , or 3 seperate sciences?). IMO, getting a U at GCSE takes some doing: when I sat them all those years ago, if a fellow student got a U, it was often a sign that they were demotivated, or ran into a problem in the exam.

I couldn't disagree more with your FIL, by the way. A tutor who is an expert in the subject being taught is worth the money.

Fair enough, married, some unis are lowering their expectations during clearing.

However, Sixth Form colleges are not lowering their expectations of GCSE's. And no uni is going to take a student who couldn't get any A-levels because they couldn't get into college to take them.

I would get the tutor. But also find out about policies on dyscalculia - it sounds very wrong for the school to be dismissing it. Imagine if it were dyslexia - would they be doing the same?

For dyslexics, there are all sorts of practical things that can help. Try to get that sort of thing in place for your dd.

If Gove is insisting on basic maths for all, then there will have to be rapid progress on understanding dyscalculia.

You make an interesting point about the 6th form Colleges Cory. But when I worked in FE A'Level students needed decent grades at GCSE in the subjects they were taking at A'Level and the funding pressure to get 16-18s in was such that no student with otherwise decent grades would have been turned away for not having GCSE maths.
Likewise I think the situation in clearing is such at present that arts/humanities students would not be turned away if they didn't have GCSE maths.

If you can afford to then it's worth it. I had a tutor for 1 hour per week for 4 years of secondary school for Maths and steadily rose up through the setsfrom the bottom- set 6 up to be one of the top in set 3 gaining a B at GCSE, I also had help for about a year (by the same tutor) for Science and got two Cs (if I remember rightly!!) It made the world of difference to me- I was able to get things fully explained personally to me, in a way I understood rather than simply 'managing' or 'getting by'.

marriedinwhiteisback Sat 24-Aug-13 14:50:08
"You make an interesting point about the 6th form Colleges Cory. But when I worked in FE A'Level students needed decent grades at GCSE in the subjects they were taking at A'Level and the funding pressure to get 16-18s in was such that no student with otherwise decent grades would have been turned away for not having GCSE maths."

Dd was told she had to have a C in maths to do drama and English lit, even though she was predicted A's in English and English lit. This was the same for all three colleges she had applied to and they said it was directives from above. Her preferred college offered her a chance to do her maths there, but there was no option of not doing it at all.

(Incidentally, not all university departments are desperate; we are expanding our intake this year.)

I agree with Doris
I recently got an admin job ata university

Had to have C in English & maths & had to provide my original gcse certificates to prove it

That's interesting cory but the LSC funding from the centre (diff name now) was lagged and linnked to the previous year's admissions.

Are you outside London perhaps where there are more students than places - where we are there are more places than students. Esher college and the best 6th forms can call the shots but many others are scratching for students. This is because nearly all the schools now have 6th forms including schools who get a poor percentage through with 5 passes including eng and maths.

I agree some courses remain oversubscribed at degree level but I'd like to know how many drama/performing arts degrees are fully subscribed this year and who has vacancies.

Just as an aside... If I had inherited some money from my parents and my daughter needed help with a core subject, I would use that money and wouldn't think much of a partner who tried to tell me I shouldn't.

I think maths would be essential for nuirsing coconutty. Although when I was a lass the hospitals were taking 17 year olds onto sRN training with 3 O'Levels including english and one science and as recently as thee late 90s I knew someone who had a handful of o's and did o'level biology at night schoool to enrol on a nursing course conveying full qualification.

Erm I'm not sure what else to say really. married I don't believe that your posts are coming from a place of concern: Rather I think you're congratulating yourself about your own parenting, which you clearly believe is far superior to mine. dd wasn't statemented so I don't have a piece of paper to show the school. Naturally I have spoken with the head of maths and those discussions are outgoing. I've done all the maths games I can find with her over the years thanks, and she can learn number facts but she cannot retain them. So the games, tapes etc make not a jot of difference.

imperial I agree. The initial conversation I'd had with DH was snatched over the heads of our screaming toddlers, and when we revisited the topic later last night he clarified that it was nothing to do with money - just that he felt guilty that it should be him helping her (he's an accountant). I think he feels bad that I should have to pay out of my inheritance cash for something he feels he can provide. Anyway we're going ahead with the tuition whatever it costs so I don't loathe him anymore :)

Madmomma, and I shall forget the defensiveness of your post. If your dd has discalculia, how did you come by this diagnosis. If it is a formal diagnosis then you must have or be able to get the documentation for the school. If it is an informal diagnosis then in your shoes I would spend some of the money, about £500, on a full assessment at an organisation such as dyslexia action which is a charity supportin dyslexia and related disabilities. They will carry out a full assessent of your daughter with a fully qualified psychologist (educational/occupatonal) who wil assess the extent and type of the problems your dd is having. A detailed document stting out diagnosis, self and external help available, and recommended adjustments for disability.

If such a report is affirmative and indicates diagnosed problems your dd's school will be obliged to comply with recommended adjustments. I imagine it would also be very informative for any tutor you might engage.

I don't think you are being unreasonable - but then I am a tutor. The advantages of employing a tutor over parents helping/teaching ( though this works well in some cases) can be:

Parenting a teenager is stressful and there are many causes for clashes/arguments etc. Students are often at the stage where they believe their parents are totally unreasonable, don't know anything etc. They may take direction better from another adult.

It IS unreasonable IMO to expect a parent who has not studied a particular subject for many years to be able to understand and then teach every aspect of a GCSE syllabus.

There are skills involved in teaching that a parent may not have - for example - how to aid understanding by presenting info in a style that plays to student strengths, how to break down concepts into small enough pieces to aid comprehension ( different for different students), teaching a variety of learning/revision methods in order to find best one for student etc. Ideally, as it is one-to-one it should not be a repeat of what a student gets in school but much more closely matched to his/her individual needs.

One of my students has been telling me all year how he doesn't understand science, it all goes over his head in class etc. I've spent all year telling him I think he can do it. He did foundation level science this year and got absolutely full marks in all his papers!

Dyscalculia is very difficult to overcome. I like your idea of times tables camp. You sound very committed and your DD sound lovely to be willing to put in all the extra work!

Yes, we're outside London, married. Plenty of Sixth Form colleges here, all seemingly doing a brisk trade.

Basic good numeracy is an invaluable life skill, I might very well want her tutored for that reason. But NOT because of the need for a piece of paper (GCSE in math).
OP's Dd sounds lovely but she may not be academic & I suspect will find another good path thru life.
2 of the 3 local colleges have many courses & qualifications (including some in the caring professions) that she could get onto without needing math or science GCSE.

www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/about-dyslexia/schools-colleges-and-universities/dyscalculia.html

For the OP.

Married if SEN support was that simple I wouldn't be going grey and would look 10yrs younger

I'm not saying the school will provide additional teaching but with a report they will at least put the OP in touch with LA specialist tutors and arrange for op's dd to have more time in some exams. I still don't understand how, given the dd's history, she was put forward to do maths early in the first place and why the OP gave consent for it. We had to agree to the early entries for both our children and pay the entry fees and I simply would not have done if either of the children were forecast less than a C (actually I wouldn't have agreed for less than an A on early entry).

"If such a report is affirmative and indicates diagnosed problems your dd's school will be obliged to comply with recommended adjustments."

Actually schools don't have to comply with any psychologist or other professional recommendations! Some schools will of course, but...

sometimes they don't have the resources, and sometimes they just think they know better, and sometimes they promise things but don't deliver, and sometimes ... you get the picture!

"I'm not saying the school will provide additional teaching but with a report they will at least put the OP in touch with LA specialist tutors and arrange for op's dd to have more time in some exams."

I'm not sure LA specialist tutors exist do they? And they wouldn't necessarily arrange for extra time either - see my comments above!

kim my parents had to pay my O'Level entry fees at grammar school ( a very long time ago but I remember taking the bill home). Both my children's schools wrote to us about early entry and we had to agree to pay.

Are you seriously telling me that state schools don't ask parents' permission? How is that working with parents in a constructive way??