to find the Sopranos flipping hard going?

[Lottapianos]

Ok, I know that devoted fans will probably be horrified. Let me explain

The good:
James Gandolfini. Fabulous portrayal of an extremely unlikeable, at times downright hideous, character
Edie Falco
Some very funny, sharp dialogue
Unflinching look at greed, self-interest, narcissism, unchecked patriarchy
Uncle Junior aka the most miserable git on the planet (but quite funny with it)
The Adriana-Christopher relationship - really upsetting at times but gripping and really well done. You cannot understand what she sees in him but she can't see a way out.

The bad (IMHO):
Lorraine Bracco. Dear god - wooden doesn't even describe it. She's always been utter rubbish. I wish they could have had an actor who was as good as JG so they could really spark off each other.
Every woman seems to be gagging to jump into bed with Tony. I know he's got a bit of an alpha male charisma going on but please, enough now.
The stupid Paulie subplots. Another wooden actor and I don't care about his mother or any of his other madcap escapades. Go away.
The number of episodes that seem to be filler. I'm halfway through season 5 and about 90% of it has been filler so far.

I am watching it as a box set so sometimes watch 2-3 episodes in an evening, but I am finding the relentless greed and ripping people off and threatening people and maiming people and general willy-waving a bit exhausting. I will stick with it to the end but TBH I do find it over-rated and I don't think it's something I will ever watch again.

Share your thoughts, got my hard hat on!

YABU it's wonderful :o

But each to their own. I bought The Wire based on recommendations in eh and couldn't get past the first few episodes. Hated almost everything about it apart from the quality of the acting.

Petite, The Wire is bloody hard going too. I struggled with about the first 6 episodes then something clicked and I absolutely loved it from then on. Highly recommend it if you feel like giving it another go!

Go on then, what's so wonderful about The Sopranos?

YANBU

It feels like I'm supposed to love it, but it doesn't come naturally. Much like The Wire.

I can appreciate its strengths but I'll never be a huge fan.

Where to start...

I think it is realistic to show so many women willingly jumping into bed with Tony - the world on which he lives, he is the most important man and power is attractive. It's important to also see that men are valued in terms of their overt masculinity and failure to display that at all times makes them vulnerable too. Hence what happens when one of them turns put to be gay. Those men are as trapped as the women, but in different ways. You see that no one is really free to make their own choices.

Tony had charm and was a genuine mix of kindness and ruthlessness.

The subplots were essential to show how mixed up they all were, but how appearance was everything.

I agree with you about Lorraine Bracco, except for the rape scenes and aftermath, where she portrayed very well the conflict of a woman who could use her connections to get revenge, but chooses not to do it!

Sorry about my appalling spelling - am on my phone and clearly have fat fingers!

OP I ebayed the box set, so unlikely to be given another go.

Sopranos is so well written, you get the idea that it's quite realistic; similar to shows like Dexter you end up quite often sympathising with a pretty horrible character and being quite surprised at yourself - flawed hero etc; the acting is brilliant, and I think Paulie is meant to be wooden, a bit stupid and a general sad case as well as being compeltely unlikeable; Adriana's storylines are excellent, especially in season five; Edoe Falco is brilliant (worth watching in Nurse Jackie too); and Tony Soprano would be attractive to many women in real life - rich, powerful, a protector - mafia bosses and high ups are always portrayed as sleeping around a lot - I don't know how realistic that is.

I think the main thing I disliked about it was the psychiatrist - she seemed very Freudian in her practice and I disagreed with so much of what she came out with. I didn't mind her as an actress though.

'Those men are as trapped as the women, but in different ways. You see that no one is really free to make their own choices.'

That's very true Louise. Everyone is stifled and having to behave how everyone else expects them too. They are really difficult characters.

I had forgotten about the rape episode - I thought it was excellent. That scene made me sick to my stomach, as it should have done.

I enjoyed watching it at uni but DP made me stop as I was having violent dreams and becoming slightly psychotic aggressive with it too.

So not sure if YABU there...

I loved...

Edie Falco and late, great James Gandolfini - felt like they were both really intense and yet also never over-the-top, always such good chemistry and emotion between them.

Christopher's self-dramatising - I love how this 'real' mobster character is so smitten and almost nostalgic for a fake mythology of his own identity, if that makes any sense? Like he just really wants to be in 'The Godfather'.

Steve Buscemi

The Pine Barrens episode

I hated...

The product placement. I refuse to believe that someone as houseproud as Carmela would tolerate constant cans of branded coke on her dining table - she'd make them use a glass!

The Soprano children - disturbingly, found myself having loads more sympathy for the actual murderous characters than for these bratty entitled McBrattisons

Janice - to be fair, I guess she's meant to be annoying, so it's a brilliant performance, but I couldn't appreciate it because every time she opened her mouth I wanted to rip my own ears off

I think as much as I love binging on box sets, The Sopranos actually can be a bit overkill - there's only so much time you can spend with these people before you start to feel really cynical - it's like there isn't a single solitary character who isn't somehow corrupt / complicit.

Sophita, I love your description of Christopher. He reminds me of an ex of mine who was almost as violent and controlling and insanely jealous as he is. He was a jumped up little weasel as well with an overdeveloped ego. Christopher is like Midas in reverse - he destroys the lives of everyone he forms a relationship with and spreads misery everywhere.

Agree about the Soprano children and agree about Janice, she's unbelievably annoying although I love her! Especially her cringe-tastic 'take the floor' moment at her mother's funeral

Steve Buscemi makes everything better just by being in it!

I never got past the first ever episode. I've tried twice.

'Midas in reverse' is perfect! - I think the worst part is how he never even realises what a fuckwit he is - just keeps gathering evidence for his file on How The World Is Against Me

& Buscemi, how I love him, let me count the ways. Is the only reason I stuck through season 1 of Boardwalk Empire. So far, 2 is quite a dramatic improvement though.

To be honest I wouldn't watch 2-3 episodes in one evening, too hard going. When I was watching the boxsets, one episode a night was enough as it's so hardgoing. Just a thought.

YABU about Paulie though, he's hilarious.

Oh I really dislike Steve Buscemi and can't work out why. I have the same irrational dislike of Emma Thompson

Ah, DP and I were thinking of getting stuck into Boardwalk Empire as our next boxset - is it not much cop then?

Oh Petite, I absolutely love Emma Thompson. She makes every film worth watching just by being in it. I wish she was my mate

I keep reading posts and thinking there's no point my repeating what they've said

OP, yes I do agree with you in part. The most tedious bits for me were the dream sequences - especially Tony after the shooting.

But overall I liked it. I think it's a good portrayal of organised crime - as far as I know, anyway. I know some people look at it and think Tony is a hero but they're getting it wrong. He's nasty, apart from a few saving graces, and he's portrayed like that quite openly.

I especially agree with the idea that Tony's trapped. He has millions but he lives quite a crappy suburban life managing idiots and parasites. Apart from Sil, that is.

Ruthless as they are, Sil and Furio, is it? The hitman he brings back from Sicily who Carmela fancies? - are the only characters I actually like because they are honest and seem as if they can wipe their own arses without Tony's help, which is more than most people in it.

I really like the way they revere the Godfather which is sentimental bullshit - I like it, but that's what it is. It tickles me that they're so desperate to convince themselves that they're good people wrapped up in the romance of honour and family and they are just stupid, weak thugs.

And I love it for the brilliant comic moments - Pine Barrens, Janice at the Little League match, the one where Christopher and his friend fancy themselves as scriptwriters and try to get Ben Kingsley to star in their terrible film, and Johnny Sack's daughter's wedding.

Still like The Wire better though.

I didn't get through the first episode. But I was watching it on French TV, in French, and that usually manages to crappify even excellent films and TV shows.

I was referring to BW there.

I know, what is there not to like about Emma T right? I can't explain it.

Lotta the period design is utterly gorgeous and it's a great story - it just felt a bit sedate at first and took me ages to get into it. Possibly a case of me having excessively high expectations? I'm definitely glad I stuck with it now - think the slow set up really pays off.

OP I like Boardwalk Empire. After the third series I noticed that they keep pitching Nucky against a main opponent every time, which is a bit trite. But I'm currently rewatching it, so I'm a fan.

it is not easy to watch but it is fantastic. it is very brutal the worse scene for me is Ralphie killing the dancer from the club it mad me cry and feel sick. but the characters are very in depth that is what makes it so good

Love Pine Barrens

Paulie "You're not gonna believe this. He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator"
Christopher "His house looked like shit"

hilarious and Christophers intervention

Men with power are attractive and Tony was

I though Lorraine Braco was brilliant as the psychotherapist, very realistic IMO.

Lots of very unlikeable characters, it was hard going at times. James Gandolfini was amazing, still shocked that he's died.

I've not watched nurse Jackie yet but it's on my list. I saw Edie Falco in the Vagina Monologues and she was brilliant.

sophita Boardwalk Empire 2 is good because it explains a lot about Jimmy in particular.

I'm impressed because they obviously set out with plotlines that would only come to fruition if they got a second series.

If they hadn't got a second series then it would have been a real shame because all their plans would have been wasted.

'Ruthless as they are, Sil and Furio, is it? The hitman he brings back from Sicily who Carmela fancies? - are the only characters I actually like because they are honest and seem as if they can wipe their own arses without Tony's help, which is more than most people in it'

Very true.

'Crappify' - excellent verb

Thanks for the BE info. I'm used to slow starts (The Wire, The Sopranos, Mad Men) so I think I'll be fine. DP however has the attention span of a gnat so he will probably bail out after 10 minutes