...to think all dog owners should have them castrated/spayed (unless if they are for breeding)?

[LizziePizzie]

I might be completely out of touch with this, but I thought that part of being a responsible dog owner was that was unless you have a stud dog, you get them castrated/spayed.

Is it cruel to have an entire dog/bitch, keeping them on the lead, or away from other dogs in case they get laid?

Is it cruel to have them castrated/spayed?

Is it just the responsibility of owners of bitches to get them spayed, or both owners of dogs and bitches?

Early neutering as often advicated by vets (around 6 mths) can also be highly detrimental, it has an effect on the growth hormones and thus the growth plates can take longer to close. I would never neuter a dog until he's done the bulk of his growing at around 2 years old (for a medium - large breed) or prior to a first season in a bitch.

As also stated depending on the cause of agression depends on the outcome, a nervous agressive dog will likely become more agressive once its testosterone is taken away however a testosterone driven agressive dog will likely benefit.

If anyone is looking at neutering their male dog but is worried about the effect on behaviour and doesnt want to go down the expensive route of behaviourists then you could try the Suprelorin implant, its a contraceptive implant that shrinks the testicles and has the same effect as neutering, it takes up to 6 weeks to take effect and wears off after 6 months so if the effect is undesireable at least its not perminent and if the desired effect is achieved you can either then go ahead and neuter or continue to have them reimplaned every 6 months. The implat costs around £60.

Personally, I think it would be cruel to subject him to an operation that he doesn't need that will have no benefit.

^ This!!!

My dog isn't neutered. He is a happy, healthy, friendly border collie. I see no need for him to be cut at all - what is the benefit?

I agree with posters who say that those with unspayed bitches should take their own responsibility.

My un-spayed bitches turn into knicker twirling, pole dancing trollops. They would happily clear a 6ft fence to meet a husband behind the bike shed with fags and a bottle of lambrusco if I gave them opportunity.

That is exactly what the chihuahuas next door are like. My cocker spaniel is panting at the fence (on a lead) whilst they back up to it, wriggling their butts.

"
My dog isn't neutered. He is a happy, healthy, friendly border collie. I see no need for him to be cut at all - what is the benefit? "

So he's always on a lead, is he?

bowlersarm
I also have a dog that would suffer from castration, however if your dog was in danger of this your vet would/should have told you, so don't worry too much.
My dog was abused and badly treated and has nervous aggression because of it. If he feels threatened or scared he will get loud and on occasion wants to nip. Because of this, he is never allowed off lead if other people are around, if we are anywhere that there are people that will pass by close to him, he is on a short lead (18" lead) and muzzled. We try very hard not to put him into an environment that will scare him and/or other people. Unless your dog is at that level, I'd say you are okay (I am not a professional!!)

For all those that are pro a blanket castration - We came to the decision not to castrate our dog after consultations with the vet, his trainer and a behaviourist. They all said that the drop in his testosterone levels would negate any confidence he is beginning to have form being in a safe environment, and this confidence is slowly but surely making him into a better dog. He's less scared, therefore less likely to feel the necessity to defend himself against the "threats" he sees.

My Cocker bitch was never spayed. In my youthful ignorance I need bothered. I was worried she would get fat and always wanted to breed her. Her later seasons were horrendous and she died of mammary cancer.
I would always spay a bitch mowing understand first hand the benefits.
My current male dog is un neutered at the moment, and thankfully displays no sexual urges whatsoever. But it is on the cards very soon.

What the hell sort of life is it for a dog who has to be on a 18in lead and muzzled all the time?

IMO it's completely the owners decision. There will always be male dogs that aren't castrated. Unfortunately if a bitch gets pregnant I would say its that owners fault sorry!
My bitch has just had her first season, we do intend to have around 2 litters off her but obviously not so young. It was my responsibility to take precautions to make sure she wasn't caught out. If a dog got her knocked up and it was stray then obviously it's not his fault it would be mine.

I still walked her she wasn't imprisoned I just changed my ways, walked her later on at night for her big walk and quieter places.

When it comes to dogs I don't think you can be all Its 50/50 takes two to tango, if you don't want your bitch to be pregnant you need to make sure it doesn't happen.

if it stops the embarrassing situation of your great aunts highland terrior trying to hump your leg while the extend family are having a nice afternoon tea then yes YANBU

and cats should also be done even though they do not humiliate teenagers with their sexual preferences

curlew a dog can lead a perfectly fine life with a muzzle when being walked.
Better than no life at all, if he is aggressive the owner is very responsible in making sure her dog can still enjoy the outdoors without injuring himself or others. A dog on a lead compared to a dog on a lead with a muzzle is no different apart from one can't harm others. They can still sniff and pant.
The other alternative would be put to sleep.

"The other alternative would be put to sleep."

If I had to choose between keeping a dog muzzled and on an 18in leash and constantly monitored at all times and PTS, then I would choose PTS.

Well I think there are pros and cons health/ behaviour wise to castration/spaying so I don't think it's as simple as your OP states.

It's also perfectly possible to stop entire animals from breeding. True "accidental" litters are rare. Mostly they're down to carelessness on the part of the owner.

But of course nobody should be breeding apart from the very best, responsible breeders.

I have to say we never wanted to have My Dog neutered. He came from a lovely bloodline and was a shining example of his breed. However when I first became pregnant he started to behave aggressively towards me. Not obeying commands, snapping at me when I tried to gain control of him, eg putting his lead back on after a walk. It was awful.

Now at the time I was on the committee of a Kennel Club training club, and all the trainers there were of the same opinion - get him done. So I spoke to my vet about it and she said it seemed the best thing to do in our circumstances. He had gone from a well trained, beautifully behaved little dog to one I didn't trust and it was heartbreaking.

It was a little miracle. He went back to being the lovely dog that he was before. He suffered no problems other than he put a bit of weight on. I was so glad we had it done.

I have to say though, having read one of the previous posts about neutered dogs being more likely to develop bone cancer, that I am now slightly worried about the two hard lumps he has one one shoulder and one hip. The vet said it may be a result of a touch of arthritis. I'm actually a bit worried now.

Buffy- you surprise me! Surely you can't wait to have his balls whipped off In fact I would expect you to be there like a shot with two housebricks...............

Well thankfully he's not your dog then Curlew

He is not always on an 18" lead and a muzzle. It's only when we have to walk through somewhere very busy.
He is normally on a normal length lead, or on occasion a long line. And more often than not, he is off lead and playing with his ball.

BUT, if he has to be in an environment where I know he will be petrified and there is a danger of him wanting to bite someone out of fear, he will be on his short lead and muzzled. it protects him and protects others.

Actually just found this:

"Interestingly, a study on 3218 dogs demonstrated that dogs that were neutered before a year of age had significantly higher chances for developing bone cancer."

My Dog was three. Hopefully that's gone in his favour.

"if you're fucking stupid enough to take an in season bitch out for a walk in public, then sorry, its your own fault if she gets jumped and puppies are the result."

Some owners don't realise that a bitch may still accept a dog, up to three weeks after her bleed has stopped (some even longer).

Some breeds can still cause harm with a muzzle on, it is more important to have a dog under control, than use a muzzle.

I have seen toddlers knocked flying by out of control, but friendly dogs. My GS would take your skin off, if she jumped up and scratched you with her claws. She has nearly knocked me out a few times by whacking me across my jaw, with her head, during play.

Thankfully because of the law around dogs having to be aloud to exhibit dog behavior, permanent muzzling will never be a law.

It has to be remembered that the worse dog attack cases have been in the families home, or involving illegal, untrained dogs.

I agree takingthestairs
If my dog was aggressive in any way whether he started it or not I would muzzle him on future occasions, I would not kill him for it.
I love him as part of my family surely like most dog owners
A muzzle doesn't restrict a dog from doing anything apart from being able to bite.
My husky bitch is typical of her nature and pulls on lead. She wears a halti to stop her pulling and obviously her lead isn't huge, maybe I should kill her.

An owner with a dog in season should know their bitch could still get pregnant after bleeding, this is part of being a responsible dog owner.

"My husky bitch is typical of her nature and pulls on lead. She wears a halti to stop her pulling and obviously her lead isn't huge, maybe I should kill her."

Of course not- she doesn't wear her halter because she is aggressive and might bite someone.........

Oh yes it's once the bleeding stops... Turns to a more straw colour is when you need to watch out with bitchs...

Mine are proper tarts! They will flag each other they don't care they just want it! It's like taking a heroine addicts drugs away when bitches are in season! You need to be very much in control and even with the most secure of defences never ever let them out of your sight in your own garden.

My eldest dog will be being spayed she has done her bit and I will never take more than 2 litters from a bitch, I believe the max is 4 under kc rules now anyway?

Just saving up for my younger bitch to go for all her tests and get results then will be the spay or nay, depending on her results and working ect at the time.
A dog who has to be on the lead full time is no life for a dog, mine can and will walk next to me off lead (would never attempt it when in season like that though)... 30 minutes off lead to a dog can be the same as over an hour walk on lead, its healthier for them, but then so is a raw diet.

Mine know their commands so to speak and are very good at hunting/finding/taking down and agility, they no to "mark" their catch by standing near until we approach if that is the job they have been asked to do. Although at lot of people near my like to try and borrow them to round up their lost dogs... I don't mind if out on a walk and someone is looking for their dog getting mine to "hunt" them however please don't know on my door because poor iclke bitsy got out again for the 10th time today...