To not really understand the problem with driving in the middle lane?

[BrokenSunglasses]

I've done a lot of motorway driving recently, and it's got me thinking, because I don't really understand when it's ok to be in the middle lane and when it's not.

I've worked out that its ok to stay in the middle lane when there's lots of cars/lorries on the inside lane and I'm going faster, but how long is it ok to stay in the middle lane when there's nothing right next to you on the inside lane?

Sometimes I stay in there longer than I perhaps should, but that's either because I can see that I'd only have to move out again in a minute because there's a slow moving lorry ahead, or because I can see a junction coming up and there will be cars filtering onto the the motorway.

I did that yesterday, and got flashed a lot by a van behind me, but it was raining so the visibility was crap, and I'd have had to slow down and be too close behind the car that was on the inside lane and would have been able to see even less because of the spray. It seems to me to be sensible to leave lots of space inbetween vehicles when it's raining, but this van made me doubt myself. He overtook me in the outside lane eventually, and I thought he should have just done that in the first place because that's what it's there for.

Was I being a lane hog or was he being a twat?

I really don't get it.

Do you expect people to pull into the outside lane to let you out? I thought the accepted etiquette was to just hang back a bit when you see someone indicating to come into the middle/overtaking lane? If you're waiting for people to pull into another lane it's no wonder you get stuck.

Sorry, I realise that sounds a bit snippy, but honestly Op, I think you might benefit from having just one motorway lesson to improve your confidence.

The problem is that some drivers are driving to the Highway Code and some are driving to some other set of their own made up rules.

Also, it's not a middle lane, it's an overtaking lane.

If you are afraid of motorway speeds just admit it to yourself and find a route your comfortable with.

No one who is learning to drive gets taken on the motorway, learners aren't allowed, that's what the advanced driving is for! Quite surprised you didn't know this and quite relieved I drive nowhere near the m4!

Brokensunglasses, I suspect that in the situation you describe you would have been safer driving a bit more slowly. The spray from driving beside the lorries would have been considerable anyway. Nobody was in the car with you, so we're only guessing here.

"[OP]: What about the issue of the speed limit being 70 though? If you are doing 70, no one should be overtaking you so does it matter which lane you are in?

[Joveline]: Probably best stick to the B roads."

No. There are more B roads. I think there should be special roads, let's call them "T" roads, and a special section in the driving test, with lots of special questions, for the very special drivers. The very, very special drivers, who answer the special questions extremely well, get to ride on the "T" roads. And that is where they will all be. Driving safely at 70. In the middle lane. We could try telling them that they are so special they don't need seat belts too.

I am new ish to motorway driving & find it hard to know what to do in a situation like movingonup describes. I love driving the M6 north of Preston because it is an empty dream of a motorway, but south of Manchester it is nose to nose lorries.

If you're not going all that fast in the "middle lane", then people from the left hand lane have to move all the way to the outside lane to overtake you!

I thought that's what the outside lane was supposed to be for, provided you are going fast enough.

And what if you are going fast enough? What happens when your preferred speed is 70, you can't do that in the inside lane because of something going slower, so you try to move out?

Lets face it, plenty of people drive at 80, and a lot more than that.

Are the people who want to drive at 70 in the middle lane because the inside lane is being used by drivers doing 60, really doing anything wrong by making the people who want to drive at 80 use the outside lane?

FFS, a couple of motorway driving lessons for anyone who is uncertain about this stuff - I'm begging you, please just do it.

I don't think you did anything wrong, in heavy rain, with poor visibility, you didn't move over because you didn't want to be too close to the car to your left and couldn't move over safely. This is a perfectly reasonable judgement call to me and you shouldn't be effectively pushed over by some white van flashing you. He was in the wrong, not you.

Your other examples are all fine too, you don't need to pull over if you see a lorry/slow moving traffic ahead, that's good anticipation, and if you see people filtering from the left, again, good idea to give them room.

No issue here except with van man.

Op can I recommend both an advanced driving and motorway driving lessons.

Sorry but how are the fines going to be enforceable? How are they going to prove that someone is hogging the middle lane?

Oh hell , each of your responses gets worse!

Please, for the sake of everyone else's safety, stay off the roads!

I think you did that last post a bit too brown, m'dear. As Georgette Heyer might say.

For all the questions you raise, a motorway driving lesson is what you need.

without looking in your mirrors, you should be at any time be able to describe the vehicles approaching you from behind,

people who find returning to the inner lanes are often not using their mirrors enough,

cars tend to come by in packs, if you return to the inner lanes, you can move around the slow moving heavy good vehicles in between packs, which massively improves your safety,

If you don't join in the packs, over a long journey, you will notice the same cars re passing you, as it is not possible to keep that form of high tension driving up for any length of time, and pack dwellers pull over into services twice as often as non pack dwellers,

as for fuel consumption, if that really bothered you, 55mph is the most economical speed, 65 mph, is on the UK motorways been found to be the most effective over distance for time/fuel,

start passing around the lorries, pull in and use the empty inner lane until the next lorry convoy all travelling at 60, overtake after a pack as passed, repeat, you will get there faster, safer and less stressed.

and if you look in all your mirrors every five seconds, you will be able to engage with the flow more smoothly.

If there was enough of a gap to move in why would you visibility have been reduced?

I probably didn't describe the situation that well, but it was raining, there was a lot of spray. I didn't want to do 50/55, which is what I'm guessing the lorry was doing, so I wanted to overtake it. I was closer to it than I would have been if I was not trying to over take it, so I was getting some of its spray out the side already, but that was ok in my mind, because I was close to overtaking the thing.

It was at that point that I got flashed, and by the time the van driver had decided to use the other lane to overtake instead of continuing to flash, I was close enough to the lorry that I was close enough to the lorry to avoid the spray.

If it hadn't been raining, there would have been a big enough gap for me to move in when he first started flashing. As it was raining, moving in would have meant I was directly behind the bit where all the spray from the lorry was landing.

If spray has such a detrimental effect on your driving you should not be in the motorway.

Agree about watching the lane to your left. If you can see that you can move over without pulling back out for a while then you go over. It's not rocket science.

Circumstances change from moment to moment on the motorway though. Trying to apply rules and regs is not as helpful as simply looking out the window to see if you are being a pain in the arse!

It's about what's going on behind you sometimes as well as to your left. If i'm going along in light traffic in the middle lane, no one behind me for miles, overtaking the traffic in the left lane as i come to it then that is one thing ...

... but if i'm going along in 'medium' traffic, and i'm in the middle lane overtaking stuff, i'll keep an eye out on what's coming up behind me. If i can see i'm going to cause someone to slow down or have to move into the 'fast' lane to get round me, and there's a nice big gap for me in the left lane i'll slip into it while the car coming up behind me goes by.

Watch what's in front of you too. If you're bowling along in the middle lane and there's no one in front of you for miles, but you can see cars piling up behind you the chances are you should be either upping your speed a bit or if you don't want to do that - move over into the left lane for a while.

Middle lane drivers drive (ho ho) me nuts!

There is always someone trundling along in the middle lane never pulling in, even when the left lane is clear. Meaning I have to pull all the way out into the right hand lane to get past them. People like that clearly drive oblivious to anything. It's dangerous. It holds up the entire road!

The other thing to remember is that there are a lot of vehicles for whom it is illegal to use the outside lane. HGVs, buses, towing vehicles. Think vans are ok though depending on size.

I'm not about to spend money I don't have on doing a motorway lesson, so you're better off just explaining it to me here.

I've been driving for 17 years, and I've only had one accident that involved a post, not another car, when I was going about 2mph.

I drive fine, I'm just asking questions!

there are no absolute rules. You move to the left as soon as it is safe to do so. For example it is not safe to do so..

• if a junction is coming up within a minute, because you can guarantee that the people coming down don't know that THEY are the ones that give way. Or they are like the jerk I came across the other day and will be on the phone. He was so engrossed in his conversation he could not hear my horn or see me. THEY are the ones who don't know who to use a motorway.

• if you will need to move out again almost immediately to overtake a slower vehicle: you don't weave in and out of traffic.

want to drive at 80? Fine, go in the outside lane if clear, and stop whining about fuel prices as you waste it. Oh, and who are you to be above the law?

BTW if I was president anyone caught using a phone while driving would have their right foot amputated. Clearly there's no other way to stop it.

My dh really gets his knickers in a twist over middle lane hoggers, he regularly waves three fingers at them as he overtakes symbolising '3 lanes' although I'm sure it must look like he's sticking his V's up at them

You don't drive fine if after 17 years you have to have motorway driving explained to you.

If there are lots of lorries in the inside lane with limited space in-between, and you are going faster than them in the middle lane, then no, you would not need to keep pulling back into the inside lane as you are overtaking.
When a reasonable gap appears, and you are no longer overtaking anyone, then pull back in.