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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder how many Facebook 'businesses' aren't registered with HMRC?

85 replies

Mimstar · 14/08/2013 18:38

Two that I know of, one who boasts about being a business woman - are completely open about the fact that they aren't registered as they 'wouldn't earn enough to pay tax anyway'. That's how it works - is it? National Insurance, for a start.

I am a self employed marketing consultant and copywriter - and it really riles me to see these people setting up a Facebook page (selling dummy clips or 'candy'), painting themselves as the new Alan Sugar and then not declaring it!

I am not sure why it riles me so much to be honest, maybe I feel as though it makes a mockery of genuinely self employed people? Maybe it feels like they are taking the piss! During my first year of being self employed, I didn't earn enough to pay tax but I still declared it and paid my NI!

OP posts:
Original poster
Mimstar · 14/08/2013 18:39

And now you will all come and tell me that I can't be a very good copywriter as there are typos in my OP Grin

OP posts:
GetStuffezd · 14/08/2013 18:41

I do kind of get your point, OP, but i know I do a bit of private tutoring on top of my FT job and I don't declare it. I also use people off of gumtree, such as odd job men, removal men, etc. who I'm certain don't declare that cash.

I think a lot of people are hard up at the moment and just trying to get a bit of cash in their pockets. Is it right? Probably not.

WillyandTig · 14/08/2013 18:41

YANBU. I wonder how many of them realise they could get massive fines for selling their dangerous products too! As well as the potential to injure children.

wplum · 14/08/2013 18:44

I have noticed the same. Even though I haven't made much from my business yet, I have made sure my arse is covered by registering as a sole trader and being safety assessed (I make bath and body products) it isnt as scary as it sounds to do it properly.

Original poster
Mimstar · 14/08/2013 18:46

I do understand that GetStuffezd and in that situation I don't hold necessarily hold it against you, however 2 people I know are telling anybody who will listen how busy they are running a 'business' and looking after their little one. They are doing this full time, although I doubt it makes much - it's the principle. It gives genuine people a bad name, although what I do isn't a similar thing.

Exactly WillyandTig - but very few people seem to pay attention to the rules! It's bizarre. There are also very strict rules about running competitions on Facebook, and yet many a 'business' run competitions which are completely against the regulations.

Maybe I should get a grip, it just riles me. I would never report anybody, I just wanted to have a little moan!

OP posts:
Original poster
Mimstar · 14/08/2013 18:48

Good for you wplum, wishing you the best of luck with it! Smile You're right, it seems very daunting initially. I soon realised that HMRC weren't scary, and that they were actually very helpful.

OP posts:
TylerHopkins · 14/08/2013 18:49

People dodge tax, people cheat on benefits. It's annoying but there a bigger companies out there doing worse.

Original poster
Mimstar · 14/08/2013 18:53

I do realise that Tyler, and like I said I wouldn't go and report somebody out of spite. I just find it very irritating how people take shortcuts and then tell everybody how extremely successful the business is. It's not that I don't empathise with people who are hard up, I've been there - I come from an extremely poor background and we had nothing when we had DD, however I still made sure I kept everything legit when I did decide to become self employed.

OP posts:
TeamEdward · 14/08/2013 18:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hardtostayfocused · 14/08/2013 18:56

It's illegal not to register as self-employed if you're running a business. If they are really are as successful as they say they are, HMRC might catch up with them anyway.
Just ignore them.

Original poster
Mimstar · 14/08/2013 18:57

That is exactly it TeamEdward - it does make you feel that way, doesn't it? I also know of people who do sell cakes, and aren't registered with the council etc and it's surprising that customers don't appear to mind! If I was having a cake made for DD, you bet I would look for was registered for Food Safety.

OP posts:
riksti · 14/08/2013 18:59

TylerHopkins - disagree. People who aren't reporting their income are doing worse. Large companies pay tax (usually) within the letter of the law. They may engage in tax avoidance but this is LEGAL. People who earn money and are not declaring it for tax purposes are engaged in tax evasion. Tax evasion is ILLEGAL. Therefore they are doing worse. In addition they may also be cheating the benefits system.

Bonkerz · 14/08/2013 18:59

Few in my area have started up and two of them are single mums on benefits charging over £30 for cakes and are not inspected or registered all cash in hand.

RenterNomad · 14/08/2013 19:07

It sounds as though your issue is the lack of a level playing field : not taking the costly precautions that you did, therefore not actually being as "successful" as they claim? Perhaps you'd be happier challenging them if you put it in the context of unfair competition?

IneedAyoniNickname · 14/08/2013 19:08

It infuriates me too. My ex has told the CSA he is unemployed and has chosen not to claim Jsa. This has led to a nil assessment.
But according to his 'business' page on facebook, work is coming in thick and fast, and its often updated with status' like "another busy day at work. Love my job"

Other than that, yes to all that tat being shit potentially dangerous. Some of the beaded keychains/dummy clips look like things my dc made at pre school, do people really pay for them?

Taz1212 · 14/08/2013 19:17

TeamEdward, I do cakes as well and it drives me batty to see local cake decorators on Facebook who aren't registered with HMRC. What amazes me is how many of them openly admit it on the fb page! It makes me wonder whether they are insured/registered with Environmental Health etc.

WeAreEternal · 14/08/2013 19:17

A school mum friend is unemployed officially, she is claiming benefits as a single parent with school aged children (jsa and housing benefit etc)

She bakes cakes, very well. There is nothing she can't do with icing, she is very talented. She advertises on Facebook mostly and is very busy, she usually has two or three cakes on the go at any one time.
She makes several hundred pounds a week from her cakes, she recently did an amazing wedding cake for nearly £600.

But she says its just a hobby, not a job and she isn't a business so there is no point setting up claiming to be one when she is not. Hmm

BMW6 · 14/08/2013 19:57

You would be surprised how many people are shopped to the HMRC by neighbours, friends, family and customers........

TeamEdward · 14/08/2013 20:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DoJo · 14/08/2013 20:43

I would have no qualms reporting someone I knew was evading tax - why should they have the benefit of everything that taxation pays for if they aren't prepared to contribute? The fact that loopholes allow companies to avoid tax legally is completely irrelevant to the discussion IMO.

badguider · 14/08/2013 20:48

I guess I just assume that they don't really earn anything to pay tax on.

With NI then it's their loss isn't it, if they don't register to pay contributions then they will not be entitled to the benefits or state pension.

If somebody was boasting to me that they're not registered for tax yet calling themselves a 'business woman' I would express very loud sympathy with them for being so unsuccessful that they couldn't even earn enough to pay tax [p-a emoticon]

Mintyy · 14/08/2013 20:50

Report these people if you are certain. What is the point of bleating about it on here?

johnworf · 14/08/2013 22:02

Ebay has had a huge crackdown on the very same people. Don't underestimate the reach of HMRC when tracking down people who should be paying tax and aren't.

I'm also self employed and pay my taxes. It annoys me that I declare my accounts, pay an accountant to prepare my annual accounts and pay corporation tax.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 14/08/2013 22:06

Well it's true that they probably won't earn enough to pay tax, and even national insurance can be avoided if you earn under around £6000. I doubt these Facebook 'businesses' selling total shite have much of a turnover. People making £££££££ and failing to declare or pay tax are unreasonable. But people making a bit of pin money, if they make profit at all, that doesn't really bother me.

morefalafel · 14/08/2013 23:26

How can you check if they are registered though? Companies House?