DP's boss beginning to take the mick...

[sillyily]

This is my first aibu, and we genuinely have no idea if we are bu or and very naive...

Will type everything in one so not to drip feed, sorry if it is all over the place.

Me and Dp met while working in a cafe when I was 16, he was 21. since then, we have had 2 kids, bought 2 houses and got engaged, I'm now 22, he's almost 26. So I feel we have a lot more life experience than our peers, but haven't really expanded with regard to work.
I left the cafe shortly after having ds (aged 18), to work part time in my dad's company - it's really interesting work, money isn't brilliant, but its my passion and I look forward to work every morning so all good there. It used to be the same with dp, money was/is awful (£8/hr for managerial role) but he loved his job, the people he worked with etc

He was paid weekly, as pretty much every other member of staff is teenage so would prefer to have money there and then. Boss was extremely relaxed about paying, would go in different days each week, sometimes 2 payments in one week and none for a fortnight to a month.

This is where it started getting a pain as we had a mortgage to pay and didn't know when we could expect money (always be fobbed off with it'll be in tomorrow.. etc) So they finally agreed to pay dp a monthly wage, with overtime being owed every 3 months. All good, DP does loads of overtime, so it was nice knowing we would have a lump of money coming in every 3 months, which we had planned to use toward our wedding money, while his monthly wage covered all bills perfectly, allowing my wage to be used for variables and extras. His first overtime payment came through and it was about 1/2 months worth of wages so we were expecting that every quarter (he does roughly same amount of overtime each month). This was July last year.

We gave it til November before we started asking after the sheets to check overtime, and it was February until we actually got them. Boss told us we owe him £700 due to dp being ill and not making up the time in overtime. (Dp had about 7 days off through the year due to dd being back and forth in hospital, and him being ill, but does an at very least 2 extra days a month)
Anyway (since I am now aware I am rambling...) I worked out that it was because his boss had been paying him for a year for 37 hours, while he only does 35 hours so we had 8 extra hours going in every month. We had absolutely no idea about this since he held off giving us the hours sheets for so long, and we didn't have the foggiest what tax and NI insurance was being taken off. So now dp is killing himself doing overtime to make up this money so we don't have to physically pay him back. He often works 3 weeks straight which isn't fair on him, me or this kids (who are 3&1) and we're not seeing any benefit. Also he is epileptic and needs to be careful with the amount of time he works.

We know that they need dp more than we need them (dp has been headhunted due to his exceptional cake making skills :D) but he doesn't want to screw the cafe over, and like I say, he likes the people etc there.

His boss has said he wants to pay him £10 an hour, but can't afford to, but for every month that they make more this year than last year, he can have £10/hr. To which we said how will we know? -We have to trust Boss No contracts involved with any aspect of work btw.

I know lots of people would be happy on £8 an hour in a cafe, and we are grateful he has a job, however, this cafe has 64 members of staff so it isn't small, and DP manages the lot of them (obv not at the same time, normally 5-15 people in one day) His boss only works 2-3 days a week, and anything that goes wrong is apparently DP's fault. Also, dp has 'designed' at least 5 of the cakes on the menu, and has customers that will only eat the cakes if he has made them, as opposed to Boss, so like I say, they do need him.

We want to speak to Boss in the week requesting a fixed higher wage, better hours and for him to be treated with more respect.

Is this U? will he laugh in our faces?

Should also mention, Boss' dw is one of my close friends, and we know they are doing rather well, so was surprised to hear him say he couldn't afford to pay more.

Thankyou if you got this far - just want some opinions please :)

Your DP could not 'screw the café over' - they have been doing that to him very successfully for some time...

Does he have a formal contract? If not, this is illegal. All staff are legally entitled to a written contract, and management can be prosecuted for failing to provide this.

I don't want to alarm you, but I would be very careful to check with the tax office to make sure that this 'boss' has been paying the tax and NI correctly.

If your DP is headhunted by a reputable catering firm again, tell him to go for it, as the person who employs him at present sounds as though he is ripping him off in every possible way.

I hope that you manage to get everything sorted out, as this kind of exploitation really makes my blood pressure rise - the way that your DP has been treated is disgraceful - you both deserve better.

If you don't ask, you usually don't get. I wouldn't bring up any of the issues with wages/overtime etc, just say that he thinks he deserves a permanent payrise because of x, y and z and that he would like to stay with the company rather than look elsewhere so could they consider it. That way it's dressing it up as a compliment to the company rather than a demand for more money.

Thanks both for replying- I'm so glad you've said that suedoku- I thought the same tbh, but because it started as an informal job (ie teenagers in a part time job, that has progressed into his 'career' ) a contract has never been formally agreed.

We will definitely push for more- out of curiosity, how much would anyone suggest someone in a managerial &skilled role (that also contributes recipes etc) should be on?

Does your DH get a proper payslip with a record of tax and NI paid? I'm guessing not, and you really need a record of what HAS been paid so you can work out whether or not the boss is being reasonable to demand £700.

It sounds very odd that, if he was struggling, he wouldn't have noticed your DH was working 8 hours per month less than he should have been.

I'd check with the JobCentre (your DH should go there to look for something else anyway!) and CAB. It all sounds very fishy and very probably illegal. But get some expert advice before you do anything else, although if I was your DH I'd look for another job. Working 3 weeks straight just isn't worth it, no matter how nice the people are.

I don't really know the industry but I'd say at least £20k before overtime. I'd move on if I were him, you are much more likely to progress up with experience in multiple companies.

He had his p60 recently, which did show his tax and ni that has been paid- but iv gota be honest, it means nothing to either of us- we have no idea how much he should be paying.. Is it worth me talking to my family friend who's an accountant..?

It really isn't worth it- we hardly see him, kids bedtime is messed up due to me having to pick him up and we're still barely making ends meet. Grrrr!! It's awkward for me, cos like I say, I'm good friends with boss' wife and our ds's are same age and friends- saying that, I'd rather lose her as a friend, and have dp earning the money he deserves...

£20k is where he said he would like to be. We know his industry doesnt pay well, but that's fine- as he loves it. Should also mention that said boss wants to go into business with him. Separate to work, but on the side- so half the time he would be employee, other half he would be partner. This is tempting as this is where money could be made due to boss' contacts and knowledge, combined with dp's skill, but at the same time, we have absolutely no trust in boss.

Argh! Please don't go into business with someone you don't completely trust. That could be awful.

No, no - do not go into business with this man - he sounds really shady (and will continue to rip you off).

As you know an accountant, I'd ask him/her if s/he would be willing to spare you an hour to just talk things over - any more and I'd offer to pay (even if it's not accepted, the offer will be appreciated) as I think that it would be money well spent....

Good luck..!

Hang on. No contract, no paid sick leave, no paid holiday I assume?

You should take some legal advice on this. Your DP needs a formal contract, and the boss needs to realise he has employment law obligations.

He has paid holiday- but only since quite recently when we really pushed for it...

We asked for a week off over bank holiday and his bday end of the month and boss' wife (who sorts this stuff out) said she'll need to check. Fine, (but they prefer him to take hol during school hols as the students are around to cover) they came back saying no because they have decided to book a last minute holiday that week because boss' wife's dm very sadly passed away in April and it would have been her bday bank holiday Monday.
Sorry, I'm aware I'm just ranting now. (fwiw he also doesn't get double time Sunday's and bank holidays...)

Thanks everyone for ur replies- gta get kids up n ready etc but I'll be back on tonight and read them again properly and decide what to do

Your DP has been there long enough to qualify for full employment rights whether he has a formal contract or not.

I too am very worried about the tax and NI position - the rules changed recently and employers now need to make monthly returns to the HMRC and it sounds like this may not be happening as every thing else is so haphazard.

Can I suggest, and I don't usually say this, that your DP sees an employment lawyer for a free half hour introductory conversation (I don't usually say for a 'free' half hour as my DH is a lawyer and free half hours can take up a lot of time for them, but I think you could get a long way in half an hour with someone who knows all of the detail).

There are plenty of other catering jobs out there, and some of them will have proper career progression and training so that it is easier to move into other jobs. I have friends who started off working as waiters and are now on 6 figure salaries doing a job they love. Okay, they're the exceptions, but it shows that it can be done with a lot of dedication and hard work. Your partner has shown he has dedication and can work hard, so he needs to expand his horizons a little bit more. Don't laugh when I say this, but MacDonalds actually have a really good management training scheme and a definite career path. I'm mentioning them because they have branches in most towns, whereas the higher paying jobs mentioned above are in major cities.

Your partner might also benefit from an informal chat with your nearest catering college. If his boss is serious about working with him, then he should have no problem supporting him to get some qualifications that will aid his progression in the catering industry.

Ok - I am not an accountant and have no experience whatsoever in accountancy. But I don't think these numbers add up.

You say your dh has been doing a 35 hour week plus an extra 2 days (or more) a month. So between July and February (7 months) he did 14 extra days. Take off the 7 days sick so he has done 7 extra days over that time. Assuming a day is 7 hours that is 49 extra hours.

He has been paid for 37 hours a week so 2 hours extra a week. 7 months is about 30 weeks. So he's been paid for about 60 hours he didn't do.

60 - 49 = 11. So he has been over paid by 11 hours.

He earns £8 an hour. 11 * 8 = £88.

So he has been overpaid by £88 not £700.

Obviously this is very "back of an envelope"y but does show that there may have been an error somewhere. I'm not saying boss is purposely cheating him - just that a lot of people do struggle with numbers and so he could easily have made an error.

I think the first thing you need to do is to ask boss for details as to how he calculated the £700. And confirm if it is correct. (If you are not confident with figures then post on mumsnet - there are lots of people on here who like sums and will happily work it out for you. Or talk to your accountant relative.)

It's time for your DP to get out in the real world, he needs to forget about letting this employer down, he's being screwed left right and centre. If he's getting head-hunted then he needs to find out what options are available and change job. As above, I also did some back of envelope calculations and this money owed doesn't sound right at all.
But first - legal advice. It's essential.

Plenty of crooked companies exist in the UK. I have a friend whose ex company didn't pay tax and NI, so he was stuck on an emergency tax code for ages, and skint even in his new, better-paid job (though he did award himself the bonus of shopping them to HMRC).

Such companies often have long-term (read: inexperienced, as despite knowing the JOB well, they know nothing about other jobs/companies) and vulnerable employees (with a partber and 2 small children, your dp is financially vulnerable, and with epilepsy, he's also physically vulnerable in a way that could impact on work... if the boss weren't piling such stress and obligation on him!). So you have a lot of students at the cafe - do you have lots of foreign-born staff as well? Typically vulnerable staff, I'm afraid: that was the case at my friend's ex company, too.

OP, I would advice your DH to get another job and run for the hills. The boss, and his wife, sound awful. I bet they wouldnt' think twice if they needed to get rid of your DH, and yet he is so considerate and thoughtful towards them.

Look they do not need him. The customers would get the hump but they'd survive, you can't live your lives from hand to mouth like this for the sake of a few compliments.
His boss is taking the piss. Employee wages should always be on time.
His bosses figures do not add up you are being taken for a ride.

Run as fast as you can away from this guy because he will just push it more and more till you end up working for technically less than minimum wage with the deductions he will keep on inventing.

Your DP should take another job and run far away.

A friend of mine was in a similar situation, totally different line of work though. The boss never paid up on time and it was never the full amount. They were aware they company would have difficulty operating as he did such a good job and they were complete sharks in comparison. He was offered all kinds of remuneration which looked impressive but meant nothing as he never saw any of it, in fact he was getting less and less. Then the boss made the grand gesture of making him a partner in the firm.

Boss then promptly disappeared clearing out all the assets leaving him holding all the debts and possibly facing prison due to the companies dodgy dealings.

Luckily for him the boss had been so impatient and ran off so quickly it was easy to prove there was no way friend had any part of the dodgy side.