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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think princess school sounds grim and sexist?

99 replies

Noteveryday · 12/08/2013 21:10

I have no wish to slag off a decent local attraction which we regularly enjoy visiting. But I sat genuinely open-mouthed reading this description of a summer holiday activity -

Knight & Princess School

"Join (name of attraction deleted) Knight and Princess School. Brave knights can dress up in chainmail and helmets in the Armour Zone and try out their combat skills in a foam sword battle (suitable for ages 2 to 10).

Sword fighting lessons using wooden training swords and real Medieval techniques will be available plus an interactive Mini Warrior Battle Show for the whole family which will reenact The Battle of Agincourt with the children cast as English archers.

The Princess Show will teach the etiquette needed to meet a Prince, with the opportunity to try on beautiful dresses and learn a Medieval courtly dance."

And that's it. That's all they will be doing in the princess school. Now obviously the argument will go that people should just take girls to the knight school. But why do they even bother having a princess school? Or make it GOOD - Or at least they should have an equivalently dull prince school - learn a dance and try on shitty prince clothes.

Am I losing it or is this bloody awful?

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 12/08/2013 22:35

*for princesses

Sirzy · 12/08/2013 22:38

Most people might not have been princesses but some were. The activities they have picked are typical of what they may have done.

They have simply picked the two most 'exciting' aspects of life at that time to create an event which they hope will get children engaging with history.

SinisterSal · 12/08/2013 22:40

yes but worra

'But it's history, like it or not...it's the way things were.'

then you say it's not representative anyway. So why not stretch the other point and make it all gender inclusive as it's class inclusive anyway?

SinisterSal · 12/08/2013 22:42

Of course Sirzy but they don't have to gender it quite so strongly.

They could give kids the chance to explore the skills without tacitly channelling them with regards to sex.
If they wanted to, they could.

fancyanother · 12/08/2013 22:43

Granted, most of my knowledge of medaeval times comes from Chaucer and Horrible histories, but AFAIK, the maidens did wait around for the knights to marry them, I don't think they did much ambition. The women who worked were living in abject poverty, tied to the landowners, popping out babies and dying in childbirth.

BrokenSunglasses · 12/08/2013 22:47

But no ones telling children that their fun has to be limited by their sex. It's an activity that probably takes a few hours at most, it's not dictating how children have to play every single day.

I just find thread like this sad, because I work with small children and I can see that the majority of children do fit into their genders stereotype the majority of the time. They aren't limited by it at all, and as long as they are given opportunities and (I'm not sure what the right word is here) validation for being who they want to be, I can't see the problem.

I think things are swinging too far in the wrong direction nowadays, and children are in just as much danger of having their confidence damaged if they fit their stereotype perfectly. But maybe that's because I've known a few too many people working in early years that seem to think that its their job to encourage girls away from princess dresses and boys away from making swords or lightsabers out of sticks.

SinisterSal · 12/08/2013 22:47

I think what bugs me is

'Here's what it's like to have been a knight/princess in medieval times. Try it, it's fun! Not you dear, you don't need to identify with them or try to understand them, they are different to you, you see. Try this instead...'

that kind of whiff coming off it

WorraLiberty · 12/08/2013 22:49

'But it's history, like it or not...it's the way things were.'

then you say it's not representative anyway. So why not stretch the other point and make it all gender inclusive as it's class inclusive anyway?

I did not say it isn't representative.

It's EXTREMELY representative of the way things were for Princesses and Knights.

And that's what the attraction is about.

SinisterSal · 12/08/2013 22:49

I don't see any hint of that at all Broken

Just chuckles Oooh he's a right terror that one
oooh she's a little princess that one.

they have heard a lot of that by the time they are in nursery

Growlithe · 12/08/2013 22:50

I think if they only had Knight School it may not appeal to all girls. Sad but true. What I think they have done is created a banner for the event that will appeal to all, but everyone will get to do everything. The bumph clearly says 'Princess Show'. That sounds like one activity in the whole event.

If they were two separate events they would be billed separately surely?

SinisterSal · 12/08/2013 22:51

Don't patronise me Worra.
I'm not head desking you over your inability to get my point

WorraLiberty · 12/08/2013 22:51

Try it, it's fun! Not you dear, you don't need to identify with them or try to understand them, they are different to you, you see.Try this instead...

Well that's just your imagination running wild isn't it?

If the OP had said they were banning kids from doing either activity based on their sex, I'd totally agree with you.

But while they're free to choose, I don't see a problem.

WorraLiberty · 12/08/2013 22:52

That's because imo you don't have a point.

SinisterSal · 12/08/2013 22:52

Ok worra, you don't see it - no problem

WorraLiberty · 12/08/2013 23:01

Actually I'm sorry SinisterSal, reading back I was being rude

I'm just saying that this isn't a 'teach your kids all about Medieval life' kind of event.

It's just a small snippet. As someone else said, they've chosen 2 things about that era that kids might be interested in...Knights and Princesses.

And kids do normally find that sort of thing more interesting than the whole Medieval era in general.

HandbagCrab · 12/08/2013 23:06

Of course it's sexist and stereotypical on all sides.

They could have medieval day! Learn how to:

joust
dress up in costume
courtly dance
reenact the battle of Agincourt etc etc.

It's less work I think to make it gender neutral and means everyone's happy to join in and do the bits they fancy and not just the bits that they are being steered to do by the use of gendered nouns.

SinisterSal · 12/08/2013 23:10

Ah thanks worra I came back to say I was going to bring this off in a horrible direction if I didn't bow out.

Yeah I get what you are saying but what infuriates irks me slightly is that all the snapshots you see give the same perspective.
Boys are/like/do x
Girls are/like/do y

I genuinely think when you get enough of that you start seeing people as these mysterious other creatures. No good for anyone.

quesadilla · 12/08/2013 23:13

Tricky one this... Technically it's not sexist unless they specify which activity is for which gender.

But the fact is that over 90 % of the kids will go with the gender group that's expected of them. How many little boys over the age of three would volunteer to publicly go with the girls? (Yes I know some boys dress up at home etc but not the same. Any kid in nursery or school who did this would never live it down with his/her peers.)

And with this in mind the organisers could have been a but more imaginative. Even "queens and knights" would have been an improvement. A queen at least has some political status.

Lame and naff. But it probably won't stop the punters.

Growlithe · 12/08/2013 23:14

Handbag I think that is what they are offering really. I just think the word 'medieval' wouldn't grab a child but the words 'knights' and 'princesses' would.

I may be wrong, but I think the bits that are annoying posters are merely spin to get the kids through the door (or portcullis or whatever).

BrokenSunglasses · 12/08/2013 23:21

I agree Growlithe.

They could just have a medieval day, but 'medieval day' doesn't have quite the same appeal as 'princess day' or 'knight day' to your average child.

BrokenSunglasses · 12/08/2013 23:26

Any kid in nursery or school who did this would never live it down with his/her peers.)

I completely disagree with this. It might be true once children get into KS2, but there would be something seriously wrong with the education given in a nursery or Y1 class if 3-5 year old children wouldn't let a male classmate 'live it down' if he decided to try on a dress!

VashtaNerada · 12/08/2013 23:26

YANBU. Agree that "medieval day" or "knights activities / prince & princess activities" would be much more inclusive. IME boys & girls generally enjoy the same stuff.

TheBleedinObvious · 12/08/2013 23:31

I'm sure they won't boys doing princess and girls doing prince activities.

The princess activities sounds fine. Dress ups and then dancing.

And when I was a little girl I wouldn't have like sword fighting either but loved dress ups (didnt like dancing much though).

Growlithe · 12/08/2013 23:34

That's true too Broken. I have found that in KS1 they are all very accepting of each other.

By KS2 anyone (boy or girl) who wanted to dress up as a princess or a fairy would be ridiculed.

This is the main reason why I'm not particularly bothered with DD2 (5) dressing up as a princess. I've got the scowling DD1 (9) too you see.

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