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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to expect to be paid for this?

29 replies

emsyj · 09/08/2013 09:40

I am currently on mat leave. I have received an email from a work colleague asking me to attend a training session in a few weeks' time. Some new recruits have also been asked to attend, although their start date is not until a week after the training takes place. There is no mention in the email that any of us will be paid for the time when we attend.

By way of background (avoiding AIBU by stealth!) I don't get any maternity pay from this employer as I was already 19 weeks pregnant when I started (long long long recruitment process etc). I do get maternity allowance from the DWP as I was employed elsewhere prior to this.

The training session is scheduled to last 1.5 hours. It takes me about 40 minutes door to door to travel to work and costs about £4.50 on the train (fares have increased since I finished work for mat leave and I've not been on the train recently so not sure of the current fare). I would need childcare for DD1 (3yo) and DD2 (6 months) - I can't ask PIL to do it as they both work (although part time, they will be working on this particular day) and my DMum can't take both children as she has a bad back and cannot lift DD2, although I could possibly get her to take DD1 and ask a friend to have DD2. Realistically though I would prefer to ask my childminder to have them both, as I would on any other work day, at a cost of £4.50 per hour per child.

AIBU to think that they shouldn't expect me to effectively work a half day in the office, with attendant travel and childcare costs, without getting paid for it? I don't want to be 'difficult' and petty, but really I either have to impose on people to get free childcare (which I am reluctant to do when really I should be able to use paid childcare on a 'working day') or absorb the significant cost of this myself - which boils my piss!!!

So... Am I petty and unreasonable? Should I suck it up and go without getting paid?

OP posts:

Cherriesarelovely · 09/08/2013 09:51

I love my job and my boss/employers are absolutely amazing and constantly falling over themselves to accomodate each and every employee. As a result we all give as much as we take and are more than happy to do the odd freebie. Otoh if my employers were different and not as accomodating I would feel as you do probably! Sorry, not that helpful of an answer. I suppose I mean I don't think Yabu in principle no, it depends how much your employers do for you.

EeyoreIsh · 09/08/2013 09:51

I think they're totally unreasonable expecting you to attend without any payment!

However, I wouldn't rule out attending. If you think it'll be a useful course and if it's close to when you'll be going back so will help you reconnect with colleagues.

But if you do attend you should still ask for payment. I'm not clear on the rules, but are you still eligible for keep in touch days if you weren't eligible for maternity leave?

JRmumma · 09/08/2013 09:55

I don't think you can be expected to attend on a compulsory basis whilst on mat leave.

IMO you certainly cannot be expected to attend without getting paid. Check with your HR about keeping in touch days, which you will get paid for. Cant see why this wouldn't apply to you just because you didn't qualify for maternity pay.

RobotHamster · 09/08/2013 09:56

Have they actually said you won't be paid? It might not have occured to them that they need to pay you for it as everybody else attending will be salaried anyway?

I'd ask if they need you to fill in a timesheet for those hours, or if you need to inform HR so they know how much to pay you (rather than saying 'am I getting paid for this' which might look arsey)

RobotHamster · 09/08/2013 09:58

KIT days are designed to allow employees to be paid for days in the office without SMP being affected. Can't find anything about it if you're on maternity allowance.

flowery · 09/08/2013 10:00

A work colleague or your manager? Speak to your manager about it, surely, if this colleague is not your manager.

Say can I confirm you'd like me to attend this training course, and can I just check what should I do about getting paid for the day, in terms of submitting a timesheet etc.

Seems a big leap to assume they want you to attend without paying you just because pay isn't specifically mentioned in the email.

LazyMonkeyButler · 09/08/2013 10:00

In my job, any new recruits have to undertake 3 days unpaid training before starting work. This training has to be repeated every 2 years, as it is regarding H&S, medication, food hygiene etc. However, as soon as you are an actual employee of the company you are paid for attending the training.

I don't see how they can make you attend whilst on maternity leave with no pay? Is there a clause covering compulsory training in your contract?

nextphase · 09/08/2013 10:09

Keeping in Touch days - if they want you to work while on Maternity Leave, they need to pay you for a KIT day (a full days pay, however long you are in for, and your not allowed more than 10 during your maternity period).

Original poster

emsyj · 09/08/2013 10:11

Everyone won't be salaried Robot, as there are 6 new starters joining one week after the date when the training takes place - the wording of the email is basically, 'I know you don't start til the week after, but it would be good if you could come anyway'. This is why I think we won't be paid for our time.

In terms of how useful it will be, it is essentially diversity training that is being delivered by a charity. It relates to a condition that one of the new starters has. So it would be useful on a personal level but not career-enhancing.

I don't think they would insist that I attend, but I would wish to attend - and to be paid, so that I can pay for childcare!

The email is from a colleague, but it is very usual for the manager to delegate this stuff so he will have asked her to send it - this is 'the norm' for my workplace. If I have an issue then obviously I will contact my manager to discuss, but the email will have been authorised and he will know it has been sent to me.

OP posts:

Original poster

emsyj · 09/08/2013 10:12

I don't think they would insist that I attend, but I would wish to attend - and to be paid, so that I can pay for childcare!

OP posts:

flowery · 09/08/2013 10:15

I really think you're reading far too much into it to assume that because pay wasn't specifically mentioned in the email, they are expecting you to attend unpaid. And in fact now you say you don't think they would insist you attend anyway.

Just speak to your manager about it. If he says he expects you to attend and has no intention of paying you, and will discipline you/be otherwise less than happy if you don't, then start a thread asking if you are petty and unreasonable for not being happy.

HappyMummyOfOne · 09/08/2013 10:22

Why not just ask your manager if you can use a KIT day rather than try and guess what they mean?

Given you were pregnant when joining and left a few months later, personally i would be anxious to prove myself and would attend anyway without payment.

Morgause · 09/08/2013 10:22

I'd go if I were in your position. The training will be useful for when you go back to work with your new colleague and he/she may appreciate the gesture.

It doesn't do any harm with the bosses to show willing either.

BrokenSunglasses · 09/08/2013 10:26

I don't think YABU to expect to be paid for the training, I'm not sure about travel time though.

Ask them, there's no harm in just asking. If they say no, then it's up to you to decide whether you want to go or not.

Original poster

emsyj · 09/08/2013 10:30

flowery I have never said that I thought they would insist on me attending - they have asked me to attend and I'm sure they expect that I will do, but if I say 'I can't do this' I don't expect they will tell me that I would be disciplined for it. I imagine they will be disappointed though. I work for a government department so it is extremely unlikely that they would make my life difficult if I said no due to childcare issues.

I think you have misunderstood my question, which was 'AIBU to expect to be paid', not 'AIBU to not attend this training if I am not going to be paid'. I am wondering whether it is reasonable to ask if I am going to get paid for my time and to expect the answer to be 'yes', rather than what I can do if I am disciplined for not going!

Yeah I know what you mean Morgause - historically I have always taken this view when asked to do stuff 'beyond the remit', if it wasn't for having to sort childcare then I would do it no problem - I just hate asking people to babysit for me and I can't really justify the cost of using paid childcare. If only it was on a Friday I could get PILs to have the children, typical it has to be scheduled for a day when they can't help!

OP posts:

Blu · 09/08/2013 10:34

It is reasonable to expect that this will be a paid KIT day.

I would accpet and say 'can you let me know the process for getting my payment for this KIT day, thanks'.

Original poster

emsyj · 09/08/2013 10:38

"Given you were pregnant when joining and left a few months later, personally i would be anxious to prove myself and would attend anyway without payment."

Wow. I'm not sure how to respond to that!

OP posts:

jammiedonut · 09/08/2013 10:46

Use it as one of your Keeping In Touch Days. You should still be entitled to them on maternity leave, regardless of whether you are receiving maternity paid. They must pay you, and you have the option to decline attendance anyway, they'll just have to train you at a later date.
I can't understand why you're getting stressed about it before knowing for certain that they won't pay you, just ask!
Have a quick check online re: KIT Days and make sure you have the relevant information at hand when talking to your employer, even though they are obliged to pay you they may try to weasel out of it! As long as you are aware of your rights you'll be fine.

jammiedonut · 09/08/2013 10:47

Yanbu to expect to be paid of course!

Cherriesarelovely · 09/08/2013 10:51

I'm not sure what else there is to say. No yanbu to expect to be paid especially since you have to get childcare. Call them and ask them. I don't think it is an unreasonable question.

DocMarten · 09/08/2013 10:53

I would have thought if you are on mat leave, then you are on mat leave. end of. Get them to book you on on the course when you return to work.

RobotHamster · 09/08/2013 11:10

"Sorry, I am unable to find childcare on that particular day. Perhaps I could attend the course when I return from mat leave" or something similar.

YANBU to want to be paid for this at all, of course not. People were just asking if that was definitely the case, rather than misunderstanding you.

flowery · 09/08/2013 11:17

You asked whether you should "suck it up and go without getting paid". To me that implies that you think they expect you to go.

No one advised you what to do if they discipline you, although point taken that you don't want unsolicited advice.

I was simply saying that you are very premature in getting what seems from the last two paragraphs of your OP to be fairly riled up about a complete non issue, and advising if the scenario I describe happens, that's the time to be asking if you are BU or not.

They don't expect you to go, so if you don't want to don't, and you have absolutely no reason to think they are not going to pay you either.

Am remembering why I don't answer employment threads in AIBU.

NatashaBee · 09/08/2013 11:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

oscarwilde · 09/08/2013 11:40

I was pregnant when I started my current job and only received maternity allowance. I had paid KIT days when I came into the office so it's definitely not an issue to have them. Legally if you are in the office for 5 mins work or 8 hours it is still considered to be a full day.
If your colleague does not have children he/she is unlikely to have even considered it/heard of it

Your DD2 is 6 months old. Two questions -
Are you proposing to be back at work before she turns 1? ie: will you remember any of this training six months down the line
Would you like to attend? For whatever reason?

If you would like to go, I would simply reply

"Dear Colleague cc HR rep

Thank you very much for extending the invitation to come in to the office for X training. It sounds very interesting and I would like to attend. In order to do so however, I will need to arrange for my two children to go into professional childcare for the day.
Would you or HR rep mind confirming that this will be treated as a KIT day? If so, provided that my childminder is prepared to take the children for one day I would be delighted to attend and catch up with the team. I will confirm attendance by x date.

Yours etc"

You imply that your attendance is conditional on payment but you don't go into your finances with a colleague. If they respond in the negative, then you can simply say that you are not in a position to cover the cost for 5/6 hours while on maternity allowance. You would be grateful if they would request that the trainer prepare a training pack for you to review on your return which would be handy for any other new starters thereafter anyway

If you don't want to /can't be arsed to go, but want to appear professional/deeply interested in your career. Regretfully decline - you will be on holiday/have visitors from overseas/still bfing/still too fat to get into anything other than jogging bottoms or was that just me
and please request a training pack.

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