AIBU to think my DD is making motherhood into.....

[HalfwayHappy]

......a nightmare for herself?

I am worried about my daughter, She is in a happy relationship, with a much wanted baby daughter of 9 mths (and very supportive DH) and could not be a more dedicated mum. So lovely with her DD, despite not sleeping for more than 3 hours at a stretch since her DD was born. But she is starting to look and act as though she is stretched out like a wire. Everything seems to be 'hyper'. She seems to be "performance parenting" all the time, and instead of becoming more relaxed about motherhood, she seems increasingly intense and has said she feels anxiety if DD cries even for a moment. She works one day a week, to 'keep her hand in', has a good social network, with various groups and classes on the go. At least one of her friends is also concerned about her.

I am really beginning to worry about her. I have once seen her in a similar state of nervous energy, when she was cramming for finals, but that was short-lived. This is increasing. My ability to physically help is limited, as my job is full-time, & then some! We are close, and talk about most things, but I am very very reluctant to broach this with her as my stance has always been to tell her she is doing a great job so that she gains in confidence.The last thing I want to do is undermine her when I know she is already stressed. !

So, what do people think? I would really like to hear opinions, because I am not sure if I am asking whether I am worrying stupidly? Or if these are the symptoms of long-term sleep deprivation? Or if I should tell her she is trying harder than she needs to? Or if other mums think this is very normal and I should quit worrying? Or if people think this really is a problem, and how I should tackle it?

onetiredmummy That's it exactly.

sorry, posted before finishing .....

One of the things concerning me most is the change in her attitude to her appearance. Heaven knows after 3 of my own I know it can take a long while before you have your act together, and climb out of PJ's, but my DD is someone who always knew when a hair was out of place and would not be seen anything less than bandbox perfect (she definitely doesn't get that from me).
To see her go to the shops with no makeup, in what she would call 'scruffs', is a real shock.
BUT that is such a totally judgemental thing to think that I was ashamed of myself. I guess you have to have known my DD to know how unusual it is, but I just have decided that it was one area of becoming a mother that she was being totally relaxed about, so decided it was actually a good thing.
Maybe I was wrong on that, too.

I am so upset that I have watched this for so long. My poor kid.
Is it important that someone goes with her, or would it work if I can just talk her into going to talk about it?
She is a very private person.

I hit the wall around DS1's 1st birthday, and it had been brewing for some time. In my case, a letter to DH and good conversation cleared the air enough to move things forwards.

I found the late stage of babyhood hard. At that point DS1 was still taking night feeds between 1-3 times a night and on top of the lack of sleep for nearly 18m (my pregnancy sleep is dreadful) I found it stressy that he "should" be sleeping through, especially as he did OK until the 4mth growth spurt. Unfortunately he developed hayfever and eczema then, then food allergies which affected his sleep until 12m when they were diagnosed and his diet changed.

I also found the structure of our day hard as there were still day feeds, and meal times took forever. With two naps thrown in, it was 3.30 before we were ready to do anything with the day and the baby world stopped then. The social side of motherhood was changing as my cohort of mothers started going back to work. Baby is more demanding as it gets mobile too . It was soon after this that we began nursery one day a week in preparation for a RTW, but I found having a day to get things done was great.

Talk to her. It might not take much to clear the air. One thing DH suggested to me was putting DS straight in the buggy as he was, and slinging so e clothes on to go for a short route to wake me up properly at the start of the day, which also got me daylight (it was mid-winter) and exercise). I'm sure you can have a conversation that moves things in a positive way.

She's running round keeping the plates spinning at the moment. She may not be ready to admit to herself that all is not well.

Perhaps introduce the topic by saying how hard you found first time motherhood. Maybe she'll open up a little.

Thanks Morgause

Halfway the not caring about her appearance, the micromanaging of diet, the reluctance to let other people care for the baby can all be symptoms of PND. Its like, if you let somebody else take care of the baby then the other person will somehow find out you are doing it all wrong or the baby will suddenly realise you are doing it wrong & want to be with someone else. So you look after the baby by yourself, terrified that somebody will take her away from you as you are not doing it properly. So you start to focus on things such as diet as its so important & make sure you get that exactly right so at least you know you're doing one thing properly & if anyone calls you on being a crap mother you can point to the diet & say but look, I'm doing this & this & this so that shows I care.

Don't worry about being judgemental, you're not. You're noticing things that are out of kilter & adding them all up & that's fine.

I'd say if you want to talk to her, then keep it about her. Don't bring her parenting into it. Show concern purely for her, for the person & not her actions if you see what I mean?

To me, it's sounding like somewhere between pnd, and the 'normal' response of a previously successful, competitive woman to the impossibility of 'getting it Right' which parenthood offers, whilst managing 9 months on broken sleep (been there, remember its effect on my mental calmness...)

But your final comment about clothing would swing it towards pnd for me. I think you should talk to her. Preface it with huge positive strokes about her parenting - how proud you are, what an amazing job she's doing, how she's doing things you wish you had etc ( forgive me if I'm projecting, but I'm sort of guessing from what you say that big emotional speeches may not be part of your family's DNA ) then say you worry about how she's feeling & the amount of stress she's under.

Separately, Is there anything you can do for the sleep issue - long term sleep deprivation puts everything out of kilter. Could you have the baby for a few hours whilst she has a nap - even once a week would help - or even better, stay over a few nights and do night shifts? Assuming she's not ebf now?

Have you spoken to her DH about it? I think you need to put on a united front if you want her to accept you're both worried.

A relative of mine had puerperal psychosis. She was quite manic at times, strung out and unable to relax for a second. It was diagnosed very soon after birth, so unlikely to be the same cnition, though parts sound similar.

However, I am posting to say she got help and made a full recovery, it could be fixed, even an extreme case like hers.

oohave thank you for the first time I have smiled about this! Actually, I am a real "talker"!! always work out my angsts by talking them through DD is less so, but still does talk to me about most things and talks to DH about everything. We are very much people who say (and mean) 'I love you and I am here for you'.

Thats why I am finding it so difficult to raise any negatives though, because I have spent 9 months telling her what a great mum she is, how wonderful her DD is, and how her DD's amazing genius progress is because she is doing such a great job. (there may be a touch of bias creeping in, there)

Thank you all for this help though. I would be an idiot to ignore people with experience of this issue, who tell me that my vibes are not misleading me. So will find a way to tackle this.

It sounds like pnd/anxiety to me. I didn't figure out that I had pnd until DD was over 4 months, even my original GP didn't think I had pnd because I seemed so together. But in reality I was terrified of being alone with Dd, completely obsessed with her sleep and just couldn't cope. Eventually it got really bad and I very nearly ended up in mother and baby unit.im much better these days having had some counselling although I still have bad days.

You sound like a lovely Mum and I wish you and your DD and DGD all the very best. I will say a wee prayer for you all.

You don't need to stop telling her she's an amazing mum - your DGD sounds like a very loved, happy and secure little girl. This is about your little girl, helping her to understand that it's ok to take timefor herself and look after herself too.

I had similar issues when my DD was about 6 months old. My DM took me out for coffee and a cake, told me how proud she was of me and then asked me if I needed any help. When I automatically replied no, as just gently probed with questions like, are you managing to rest, how do you think things are going etc. she just chipped that wall down!

Please be careful how you broach it with her. Avoid suggestions like in your OP that she's making it a nightmare. I say this because I was very similar and my mother (very worried and well meaning but tactless) said "do you think you have post natal depression or something? " inan accusatory, disgusted way, also things like I was "making it difficult for myself", "making a meal of things". It didn't help!

Ah - ignore me then - it was just your comment about your dd being private - often something that runs in families, ime. You sound like a lovely grandma and mum btw - I'm sure you'll help your dd get what she needs.

Agree with others that separating her parenting (which you are proud of) and how she's feeling herself might be a really good way to help keep things neutral.

you do not need to,and must not be negative about her parenting,looks or tell her shes making it difficult for herself

All you need to say is that you are worried about her.

Talk to her about how you felt when you had your babies.
Talk to her about what anxiety is.
Ask her to see a GP, to put your mind at rest... (If this will be easier for her to take)

And then leave it to the GP to diagnose and help your DD.

listing all the things you can see that are worrying you, is not going to help her.

You probably know all this,and you sound like a lovely mum,I just had to say,because negativity could push her further into herself.

I'm a very private person,I don't speak to anyone about my feelings really,certainly not my mother,and it took two and a half years before my PND/Anxiety was diagnosed.
I went to the GP in the end because I was just completely exhausted.
Anxiety leaves you running on adrenialin,you are in constant fight or flight mode.

It sounds like PND mixed in with anxiety (probably linked to wanting to 'get it right' or at least, that's how it sounds).

I had PND and anxiety at the same time and it took ages to realize it wasn't normal. The PND bit was missed for ages and got quite bad because it wasn't obvious, as I was so manic, which isn't usually associated with depression.

I was also a perfectionist before DS, so having to 'let go' a bit didn't come naturally to me & I felt like I was under immense pressure & did feel awful about things not being as 'perfect' as they were before DS.

Hope she gets the help she needs.

PND affected me like this too. Can you speak to her HV?

Reading this she sounds like myself and a lot of my friends with our first DC.

It's a real shock having a baby and sleep deprivation is so hard/unexpected.

I think many people do put themselves under pressure to fully breastfeed, cook from scratch, not let baby cry.... As these are trends at the moment.
I think most new parents do follow the current trends so it would be very hard to go against.
My Mum says she was encouraged to let us cry a bit. It was thought to be good for a baby's lungs. We all slept through from 6 weeks. We all also ate jarred/packet food. These trends may well have been easier on Mum.

It may be that she simply has to ride it out. I've heard of lots of wakeful babies that start sleeping better around 15 months.

Her appearance may just be her response to 'something's got to give' and not necessarily a bad thing.

I've found that myself and friends have relaxed a bit with subsequent children. It's not such a shock and we feel like we know what to do. I see a lot less homemade baby food and a lot more jars/pouches. (I still breastfeed and don't let baby cry!)

Your dd is lucky to have you as her mum you sound so lovely!

I have a 7 month old ds pfb and I really struggled at the beginning with anxiety ( specifically health anxiety after ds was hospitalized with bronchitis at 5 week's old :( ) I would really limit what we did, we went to lots of groups and to see friends but I would avoid traveling in rush hour and I would move away from anyone who smelt of smoke. I wouldn't let smokers hold ds and I would really panic if someone we were around sneezed or coughed.

My lovely mum told me she was worried about me but the way she put it was "I'm worried you aren't enjoying things as much as you could be" she always said how great I was as a mum and never insinuated my anxieties negatively effected ds. I was never diagnosed as having pnd, but I feel like I didn't react in a normal way. It really helped me to talk about my anxieties, I would have a new thing to worry about ever couple of days ( skull closing too early, eye cancer, sids, autism, tick born encephalitis and many more) it was great to be able to talk to my mum and be completely honest with her and hear her say "don't be silly he is perfect/it's too early to tell/that's normal" maybe if you bring the subject up with her she would be able to use you as a rational voice when she is getting worked up about things.

You mentioned about saying her dds progress is because your dd is doing such a great job, I have had people say this to me lots, also people saying ds is so happy/calm because we are so loving and relaxed with him, I actually ( personally I know everyone is different) felt that put lots of pressure on me, it made me think oh god so when he occasionally cries does that mean I'm not being loving enough? Ds is very advanced physically, he could sit at 4 months and crawl and pull up on furniture at 6 months but he is just average when it comes to communication so the praise I get for encouraging him physically I just turn around in my head to criticism that maybe if I just tried a bit harder as a mum he would be further in his speech development.

HalfwayHappy when I read your OP I actually thought you were my MIL,except she would of been talking about a dd with a 9month (just turned 10m) ds!

My SIL is very much a "performance parent" and everyone one has noticed it and has commented on it,although not to SIL face,but like your dd SIL has always been the type that has to be seen as "the best" at everything and is competetive in the sense of she has to always be the golden girl and better than everyone else,and she is generally a massive attention seeker at the best of times but since she had her DS her behaviour has very clearly changed and become much more OTT than before and we've all said that she clearly isn't/can't cope very well with motherhood. There have been times when her mask has slipped and we've seen the cracks show in very obvious ways and she does also have massive anxiety whenever her ds cries for even a second and is in a rush to get him to be quiet again and gets herself incredibly stressed out if he's still crying after 30seconds. Like your dd,SIL is also suffering from sleep deprivation and we're all convinced she has PND of some level but none of us dare to mention it to her because she can also be highly defensive and nasty if she feels she's being critisised or wronged,and generally lives in a state of denial about how fucked up screwed imperfect her life really is and much prefers to act and say how wonderfully perfect her entire life and everything and everyone in it is,even when she knows its a lie and she's fooling nobody...

I'd say perhaps try to talk to your dd about your concerns,but don't be surprised if she brushes it off and says she's "fine" and is "coping" just fine (this is the response my mil got when she attempted to talk about it a while back). I think the best approach would be to have a quiet word with her DP about her,he may of noticed the changes in her behaviour too or may try to help her out a bit more,perhaps he may even suggest she talks to someone about her anxiety/potential PND...then if she comes to you saying what her DP has said you could then come out with "well maybe its not such a bad idea" or "well you do seem a bit on egde" ect... That's my mils next plan anyway,problem is she doesn't often see sils dp and she doesn't have his number to call him!

I hope you can find a way to help your dd op.

Honeytea, I felt exactly the same about the "doing a great job, so baby is doing well" thing!

Oh good heavens Miaow the last thing I want to do is criticise her, or for her to feel even faintly criticised by me! I know I titled the thread badly (I explained somewhere upthread) but genuinely, I do think she is doing a great job with everything.

Its just that I can see that the strain on her is not ....I don't know....just not 'my girl'. I see the minor traits (which we all have, of one kind or another) of high tension, rapid stress response and overall anxiety, and they are now dominating her life to the extent that she is not able to relax and enjoy him. This is just not how she would normally be. She so much wanted this baby, and the life she now has has been her goal for a long time, it breaks my heart to see her ......just not 'right'.
I wish I could explain/define it better but a lot of posters seem to have 'got it' and are echoing the symptoms, so perhaps it is indeed PND.

One way or another, I will talk it over with her in the coming week. Although private people, we are very open with those we are close to, so I am happy to broach the subject, particularly as we have already touched on the edges of it. I think it will be best to speak with her directly, as she might see talking to my SIL about it as undermining her in some way. Not sure, but that is my instinctive response to the idea. At least at this point.

Biscuit am pretty sure I am not your MIL . What a difficult situation for you all though. I hope she can find the right words. Luckily, my DD is not the 'precious' sort, and is the last person to take a pretentious stance, so I don't have that same barrier to break through. I hope your MIL is able to help her.

MrChip your thoughts have also been mine, which is why I posted here - just to get the real opinions of all the other new mums who are living with new babies today. I have not been sure enough to potentially upset her over something which might be just a new way of parenting which old birds like me need to get a grip on. If it is just trying to keep up with the trend, though, then this style does seem to be immensely hard on new mums trying to live up to the expectations?

I really wanted all input on this, so am very grateful for the variety of thoughts coming through.

Hi Mum!

only joking, I think!

But you do sound just like my wonderful, caring, worrying about me but scared to ask how I am in case I lose my temper as I sometimes can, Mum :)

Please can you arrange a 'surprise' mum and daughter day out for us with my DH (who is lovely and will gladly agree) taking care of our baby all day. I'd like to go shopping with you, maybe for lunch and then for a few glasses of wine :) where you can then ask me how I feel, where I will tell you everything is great, and then be honest after glass 2/3

What do you think Mum? :)

(I do think this would be a nice way to address the situation before getting Drs/HV involved - hope this helps!)

Bless you! I don't think you are, but that is just the sort of thing my DD would say