AIBU to be furious that all the finger pointing in the Daniel Pelka case...

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Is being aimed towards the Head of Children Services and there is no mention of the Doctor that misdiagnosed this little boy with an eating disorder ? I mean FFS what kind of eating disorder leads a child to picking up food off a floor and scavenging in bins...

Years ago I set a homework of writing a dramatic monologue, the next morning a pupil came to me before school to hand it in. At break she came to see if I had marked it so I did. It was a description of watching her sister being raped in the reflection of a TV screen. This child was in care with her sister and SS were very dismissive when we reported the concerns. Fortunately the HT stood her ground and called the Police and refused to let either of the girls go 'home'. She even risked her job by saying they would be going home with her rather than back to this man.

Eventually this man was convicted and jailed but I will never forget the assumption made by SS that the children were automatically lying. Indeed the social worker said "well you know what teenagers are like".

Fortunately the girls are now recovering well and both have built good lives but SS would have left them in that situation, possibly because the social worker was only 23.

Perhaps that this is a wake up for all of us. Not to just report to the authorities, but follow it up too.

can anybody clarify whether there is a national register ofchildren.I remember it being proposed years ago

There was a system called contactpoint that was done away with a couple of years ago. It didn't even get going before it was disbanded.

There was a system called contactpoint that was done away with a couple of years ago. It didn't even get going before it was disbanded.

I hope funding wasn't the issue.

It's scary that there's no joined up approach between different organisations. It's a shame that there can't be social workers assigned to each school so tHat concerns get reported, logged and followed up by one person or team in social services. It would also mean that there would be a clear chain of accountability. (That's not blaming the schools or ss btw, but it instances where things were dismissed or not followed up correctly it could be picked up via an audit/review, rather than a death.)

Agree with Martin Narey.

I feel so sad about this case... I am usually really, quite stoic but I don't know it's got to me

It's the thought of the teachers locking food away because he was stealing it He was an underweight child who was hungry - it's such a basic need in a child of that age...

I just imagine how alone he felt, how misunderstood - he wasn't being bad he was being starved to death.

It bothers me that the teacher has moved counties to a new post. If I walked in my son's class and she was there I would remove him immediately... Without question.

Like I said - I am normally stoic, normally on side of understanding that the system is what is and professionals on the whole do a decent job with the tools they have and the blame lies with the parents...

I do feel like that but there is an added deep disquiet about his care at school

He was a beautiful boy - may he rest in peace.

As I understand it, the teacher believed that Daniel had a rare disease and should not be give normal food, because this is what his mother had told her. The teacher may have been naive or misguided, but she wasn't being deliberately neglectful.

Are you saying that it does not matter how incompetent teachers, or social services or doctors or other workers are, that they bear no responsibility at all?
Why should they do their jobs then?
Why should they get paid, in part, for this sort of stuff.

There is no evidence that they were incompetent. You have no idea how many children they may have successfully protected because it's only when things go wrong that there is any publicity. . No one expects the police to be able to prevent all crime against adults. The best safeguarding service in the world cannot prevent all crime against children.

social services professionals are the ones the media and public goes for

..and what do you think we pay SW to do?

Unfortunately, in this particular case there is the tragic evidence of the death of Daniel to say that yes, they were incompetent.

I am awaiting the Serious Case Review with interest.

This child was starved and beaten in full public view. If the system allowed that to happen (as opposed to individual failings) then the system is wrong.

Most children who come to the attention of child protection services is due to neglect, so a lot of the ethos and workings of the system are to support such families, as obviously if a family can be helped back "on the right track", this is generally the best option.

However, such tactics are pointless when adults are actively abusing children. There needs to be a new paradigm for dealing with these cases.

Unfortunately it seems that due to the other children being well looked after that this seems to have placed the view that what the mother was saying was correct about the medication etc as no-one really wants to believe that a mother could single out one of her children for this abuse unfortunatley the bruises and weight lose could have easily been lied about under the guise of an illness what I cant believe is that Social work attended the house, the missed meeting with doctors and themselves werent follwed up and that the teachers werent listened to when they reported their concerns, he and his siblings were simply too scared to speak out like many other children :-(

As with that terrible book 'a boy called IT' you just can't believe this level of abuse goes unnoticed. But it does. Clever, manipulative, lying evil people.

whois has it right. It is very difficult to defend against determined liars. I have no idea what could motivate people to do this to a child, but to blame anyone except the criminals seems most unfair.

as GoshAnneGorilla says, the system is geared to help those who neglect children or have no idea how to parent. It is not set up to catch child killers.

a horrible story. May they get what they deserve in prison.

xylem Social workers cannot gain a care order without input from other agencies. You clearly have no idea of what social workers do or how they do it.

Interesting, Lord Laming's 2009 report highlighted that information sharing remains very poor and that this often comes from the medical sector who feel bound by the constraints of confidentiality which is to the detriment of the child. He stated that the laws of information sharing are not well enough understood.

I feel for the surviving sibling. he was interviewed and described the horrific abuse and how he 'looked after' his brother afterwards......how will he ever get over this? assuming its a brother,think I read it was,not sure of his age,but he remembers it all.

Unfortunately, in this particular case there is the tragic evidence of the death of Daniel to say that yes, they were incompetent.

The death of a child does not meant that they were incompetent. It's tragic but the only way you could prevent all deaths like this would be to take every child away from its parents and into care when there was even a possibility of abuse. Does anyone think that would lead to better outcomes?

It would be great if all child abuse were clear-cut. It is not. Most symptoms of abuse, even severe ones, can also be caused by physical illnesses. Have all of you who are criticising the SWs forgotten the high-profile miscarriages of justice where mothers were wrongly convicted of killing their babies?

It does not follow that, because a child dies, the teachers, doctors or social workers have been incompetent. They have failed, certainly, and no doubt the serious case review will show that opportunities were missed but it is simply impossible to get it right every time. In safeguarding, you are always treading a difficult line between protecting children and infringing the rights of families.

I'm sure all those of you who are finger-pointing never ever make a misjudgement in your own jobs. Unfortunately, in safeguarding, the stakes are incredibly high and the judgements are incredibly difficult.

Parents fault end of

Can anyone explain something that was mentioned upthread about a teacher not asking too many questions?

If a child mentions something suspicious, can the teacher/TA not draw the child on that subject?

I don't know if this little boys English was good, but couldn't they have just asked him why he was stealing food from bins, etc?

I sincerely hope those two evil scum bags meet a nasty end in prison.

rambleon it makes you wonder doesn't it!?

Iirc the not asking too many questions is to do with trying not to lead the child. So it's more about listening and asking open questions without an agenda if that makes sense. Sorry, it's been a few years since my safeguarding training. I'm sure someone else will explain better.

His parents killed him ( evil murdering bastards ) no one else is to blame.

I'm a Safeguarding Officer in a college.

I have referred students to Social Services, some on more than one occasion. Answer "doesn't meet the thresholds - case closed".

What happens then? You tell me.

Rambleon - you would need to be careful & not say things like aren;t you getting anything to eat at home cos you're eating everything here or who did that to you if you notice a bruise. Teachers & TA's aren't taught how to question children which is why they refer their concerns on. They should report anything they see or hear though and listen if a child tells them something, whilst making it clear that they need to tell the sasfeguarding officer what was said.