To wish some parents would read this article...

[itsonlyapapermoon]

Here (not Daily Fail linky, don't worry ;)

and realise that they are doing their children a massive disservice by never letting them fail or do things for themselves? My ex-husband, as an example, was mollycoddled by his mother and he was (and is) an unbearable man-child who was never held accountable for his actions. Nothing was ever his fault, and at the age of 30, Mummy and Daddy are still bailing him out.
My two youngest sisters (especially youngest DS15) expect my parents to hand over money and basically demand things without doing anything to deserve the reward. My 18yo DSis is finished school now and has no job prospects and basically sits in her bedroom all day.

I had my first job of a paper round at 12yo and then went onto a part time job at 15. I've never expected anyone to just give me things without earning it!!
I fear for the current and future generations of young adults who are entitled and want the trappings of success without doing any of the work. (Obviously there are young people these days who are not like this at all and are fantastically self-motivated). I've heard of parents even filling out their children's Uni applications, or ringing prospective employers on behalf of their kids. Whatthe??
We are trying really hard to make sure we bring our kids up to be self-sufficient, resilient people, and not spoilt brats.
AIBU to wish that some parents would stop trying to make their kids like them by doing everything for them and never telling them "No." ?

I completely agree with karma.

The good old days were anything but. Corporal punishment was outlawed in schools in the late 80s, I think, but it was still common at home. I didn't grow up in a hugely violent household but can still remember being whacked by my dad on occasion. Schools might not have been able to use canes for discipline methods but ritual sarcasm and humiliation were still used as a method of 'controlling' children.

My parents both worked and I was walking to and from school alone at the age of seven and came back to an empty house at around the same age. Those long summer holidays people remember fondly with days playing were downright dangerous.

Children were hugely vulnerable to sexual abuse because we weren't believed and couldn't talk back to adults. I had one man take advantage of me massively because it just hadn't been taught to me to say no to adults.

Safety wasn't a huge consideration - I was bundled into the boot of our old car and driven to Cornwall (from Lancashire) babies were weaned at 3 months or younger, people smoked with abandon anywhere, everywhere.

Personally I'm glad I had my daughter in 2012 not 1982.

I didn't have a paper round at 12 etc... Didn't have a weekend job while doing my A Levels or degree. Did my parent's ruin me, well parent? I'd say no, they allowed me to focus my energy on my study's which was more important at that time

Snap faithless and that was quite a long time ago too. I think I've turned out all right.

Oh, and the only thing the link teaches me is that the Daily Mail doesn't have the monopoly on reactionary daftness.

Although Richard Littlejohn likes to write about the character-forming opportunities offered by falling from climbing frames onto asphalt too. When not ranting about poovery, that is.

pianodoodle is that from the monty python 'four yorkshiremen' sketch? i heard a variation of it from my dad all the way growing up!

crescentmoon haha yes I know it from Monty Python but I think the actual sketch itself is much older than that :)

Obviously it is unreasonable to put all the blame on the parents. I think it is also hard when schools reward every child even when some of them haven't done anything to merit it. Our kids school won't correct their work with a red pen, or cross out if an answer is wrong, or even insist on decent spelling or grammar because it might hurt their self esteem. This is worrying too, because it is nothing like the real world. An employer isn't going to shield you from criticism if you mess up on the job for fear of hurting your feelings. But teachers can't win either because even if they don't agree with the school's policies they have to go along for fear of losing their job. And what about the lawsuit-happy parents who will sue if Little Johnny isn't given a fair grade, whether he's earnt it or not?

My example of my ex husband was just that: and example. His parents spoiled him and he never learned accountability. He has 3 children he barely sees and took off two states away when things weren't going his way and got too tough. He threw massive toddler tantrums when he couldn't get his own way. My parents started off parenting I guess what you would call a more old fashioned with their first 3 children (myself and younger brother and sister): we had chores, and proper discipline etc, but there is an 11 and 14yr age gap between me and my two youngest sisters. My mother went back to work and spoilt my two younger sisters because she felt she had to make up for the fact that she wasn't home like she was with us elder 3. It's been a path of least resistance to just say yes and not get an earful of abuse because they aren't being let do what they want.

little Johnny

My bingo card is filling up nicely.

That's ridiculous, since when has a parent sued a school over a grade?

It also isn't accurate to say that schools 'don't insist on correct spelling/grammar." What is accurate however is that schools don't correct every little mistake a child makes because then they get a piece of work back covered in red pen. This doesn't help the child. Much better to hone in on one or two key errors. However, if I can see a child has made an effort, I praise them, even if its not very good.

The reason schools have moved beyond humiliation, sarcasm and contempt is because it doesn't work. A child doesn't hear 'This work is rubbish!' and decide he will never hear that again, he just hears he is stupid. By the way, if a kid isn't making an effort that is different again but then as a teacher you follow the schools discipline policies and contact parents.

Today's world is far from perfect but we are a better world than twenty years ago, I feel.

By the way-I'm not suggesting being cruel to children at all. Mine have been breastfed, co-slept sometimes, picked up and comforted when they cried etc. I don't think kids should be given an overabundance of chores either, they have to learn through playing and being kids but I do think they need to be taught certain skills. They need to learn that the world doesn't owe them a living and that it's not always a fair place. It's not cruel to teach them how to make their bed, or put their things away. To learn how to clean their plates or chop vegetables (when they're old enough). Or how to use a washing machine! They need to know these things for when they're old enough to fly the nest, unless parents are planning on having their kids live with them until they're 40. My brothers ex girlfriend didn't know how to use a washing machine when she was 18. It wasn't exactly hard-it had an 'on' button and a 'start' button.
And of course parents never set out to do the wrong thing by their kids either, we all mess them up at some point. You want the best for your children, but sometimes the best thing is to let them learn things for themselves, and not jump in to save them all the time. There are clearly many factors that contribute.

I also agree that humiliation, sarcasm and contempt is never going to encourage a child to do better and would never suggest that. Children definitely need encouragement, but I don't think there should be encouragement just for the sake of it, otherwise it becomes a little bit hollow. When I was at primary school I had a fantastic teacher. He challenged us, made us use our brains and think outside the square. He also pointed out when we made mistakes-never to humiliate, but so we could learn from them and work out better ways to do things. He would always praise when we did well, and it made us work harder and want to impress him. He didn't sugar coat things though, he was firm but fair. Balanced, which is how it should be. We've had teachers who everyone knew was soft and you could take the piss with. I still remember one cow of a teacher in high school who barked orders at you, corrected your work and basically crossed everything out and said, "Wrong, wrong, wrong, do it again!!!" without further explanation. Noone ever did well in her classes, and I agree that is damaging to kids self esteem.

I let mine charge around like maniacs, don't leap in at the first sign of potential harm (within sensible bounds) and do the "You OK? Good. Ok shake it off and off you go" & 'Magic kiss' with minor scrapes and falls often much to the horror of other Mummies They also have jobs around the house and are expected to be responsible for their own rooms, kit and getting washing to the basket. All 4 biters are encouraged to do their best, praised for having done so, cuddled lots and told how wonderful they are regularly. They're also disciplined appropriately where necessary.

I thought I was normal

The school sports day bingo cards at the ready people made me think again when dropped myself in the smelly stuff when I commented on the 'joint' relay style races so 'the group' won, rather than any individual children. Apparently the 'non sporty' children would come last and that wouldn't be fair.
Oddly enough my wondering why the non sporty children need to be spared losing at the expense of a sporty but non academic child excelling for a change clearly co-incided with me growing at least one set of horns.

Of course my shouting "Go on Biter2" shortly there-after probably didn't help

Did they not have competitive events for the sporty children anklebitersmum as well as joint relays for the physically inept?

itsonlyapapermoon - I can't speak for all schools but I know some teachers choose to not mark all spelling/grammar errors as on some children's there would be more red (or green/purple what ever colour they are using) pen then black/blue so they pick up on the main ones (ie important words for the topic) and leave the rest. I don't disagree with this approach as it has been shown that children see the sea of red pen and just switch off, they don't bother to read the comments or try and fix what the teacher has picked up on.
I'd rather the child focuses on something.

Your link states we rave to easily, maybe when our children are 15/16 but I think the little things need to be praised. My DS (2) is super/awesome for being able to recognise 5 or so letter forms and sound their phonics, it's a little thing but by praising him I'm encouraging him.

There will always be individuals who expect other people to bail them out and have a massive sense of entitlement. There will always be people who work hard and pay their own way. I'm really tired of the judgemental way the media spin a lot of young people as being lazy, feckless and lacking in ambition. All the young people I know are doing their best to make a living with the skills and jobs available to them.

Oh you read an article ? Why didn't you say so? The world is saved!

They need to learn that the world doesn't owe them a living and that it's not always a fair place.

There is plenty of time for that, why do I need to show my DS that the world isn't a fair place?

Also, I don't like your usage of physically inept. What do you mean by that?

I had my first job of a paper round at 12yo and then went onto a part time job at 15
My ds is 17 and held p/t jobs from 16. He worked for Comet from October to Christmas, then got a casual lifeguard job at leisure centre and has worked there for 18 months, also has a second job on a tuesday. He has paid for two holidays, first one camping but just got back from a week in Paris with his gf in a nice little studio flat. They booked everything themselves and survived Most of his friends have jobs as well.
My DD 15 has earned money baby sitting and will spend the summer volunteering at a SN play scheme which she loves. Though had to laugh when she told me this week that she had a hard day at work, which i wouldnt know about because i had a desk job . She had looked after a particularly challenging child from 9.15 to 4.15 so i do understand where she was coming from.

Don't you faithless Oh well.

I was a physically inept child. It means that I was always dropping the ball and coming last in running races. I've grown into a physically inept adult but at least these days I can limit the chances of public humiliation.

What did you think I meant, out of interest?

I think the points about mollycoddled children are valid, but I don't think there's been any increase in it. There have always been people like that.

Like all things in life, it's a balance. I was taught to be self-sufficient from a young age. It stood me in good stead when my parents died young. I am trying to raise my own DC in the same way, but I will also try to make things easier for them where I can because I know how hard I found it to do things on my own sometimes. There is nothing wrong with having a helping hand and an easier time of things as long as you can do it without and as long as you remain appreciative of the help.

Nope limitedperiodonly my horns and I were stunned.

I was the round child at school. I ran distances well but was usually still stuck in the hula-hoop in when everyone else had crossed the line in the obstacle race.

Ah anklebitersmum that was unfortunate. There should have been proper races for the children who could run fast.

I couldn't. My event was the tunnel ball race. I was stunned when I found out it wasn't actually a real sport.

I don't think it's a bad idea to have races that everyone can join in on sports day. It saves boring those who aren't sporty, which let's face it, is most of us.

Like the obstacle race Still scowl at hula hoops to this day

pianodoodle is that from the monty python 'four yorkshiremen' sketch? i heard a variation of it from my dad all the way growing up!

crescentmoon haha yes I know it from Monty Python but I think the actual sketch itself is much older than that

It's from At Last the 1948 Show - the original four Yorkshiremen were Tim Brooke-Taylor, Marty Feldman, John Cleese and Graham Chapman.

It's been used as a catchphrase in our family for years - 'You had a shoebox - Luxury!'