To be incredulous that this little boy wasn't protected (warning - distressing news coverage)

[LEMisdisappointed]

news article

I am so angry - yet another child tortured and murdered by his "parents". The school had written comments in the "concerns" book, yet still this poor little mite was starved and beaten systematically over a period of time. Do professionals become numb to childrens needs? Does no one check FFS????

My DD is a healthy child (thankfully) and never taken to the GP as she hardly ever gets sick, the only times she has been in the past few years are for injuries - nothing serious apart from biting through her tongue (ouchie), another time she burnt her hand and more recently a horse trod on her toe. The nurse commented that she was "accident prone" and asked if we had a social worker Fair enough actually, although DP was offended, although no follow up action taken. It looks worse i guess because they are the only notes on her medical record since she was a baby (shes 8 now). Everyone talks about "safeguarding" but it appears that they are just paying lip service to it and children are suffering either through unintentional neglect or willful cruelty.

I don't understand, after the whole Baby P thing that this can still slip through the net

That's just ridiculous.

Why can't a central hub be set up for at risk children - surely it's over complicating things to include every child in the country, the majority of whom won't be at risk.

There's a link between poor housing and children at risk, so the hub was trying to match information about children on the At Risk register with Housing and SW reports, and the police.
Too many adults felt that they were being placed in a difficult situation, they didn't want their families involved and became very hostile about the possibilities of misuse and misinformation.
Which given the state of data handling, accuracy and protection online is understandable.

Have been thinking about this a lot. Daniel's mother and stepfather were the ones responsible and are 100% guilty. I hope they are locked away forever and if they ever are released, it will be well beyond their child-creating years.

However, the little boy was let down by everyone else in his life. Everyone. He starved to death in front of all of them and nothing at all was done. I hope an awful lot of soul searching is going on, as well as the official enquiry. I still can't believe that after Victoria and Peter, two other children who were let down by this country in spectacular fashion, this has happened again.

I'm an atheist and I know there is no heaven, but at least his pain is over now. What a short and horrific life he led.

The only reason I can imagine anyone doing this to a little child is that they had become for some reason utterly utterly desensitised and dehumanised and entirely lacked empathy and compassion of any kind. This kind of behaviour made them feel powerful and it was taken to its ultimate conclusion. How could anyone get like that? That's one of the questions.

This case is highly unusual in that both the mother and boyfriend seem to have been equal in the level of abuse they inflicted on Daniel.

Usually - even in the case of Baby P - one in the partnership will be the sadist and the other enables but doesn't partake. It's rare to get two equally twisted pro-active abusers.

Hester - I really struggle to understand why people are like this too.

And they were BOTH like this. Is it that common to have BOTH people who behaviour like this and then literally gang up on a child and abuse him like this? Why just him? What about the other child, was she abused too. How on earth can she move on from this. She tried to help him.

I just hope that these two get what they deserve but somehow I dont think they will just rot in jail. They will be protected, given warmth and food, and lets not forgot their human rights.

Of course they wont be together in prison together which is something. Perhaps these two need to think now whether life is in fact worth living. Society doesnt want them. We all feel phycially sick as to what they have done

Brian Calling the police would be way outside their authority

It is not outside anyone's authority to call the police should they feel that another person is in danger. I think most teachers know this. I hope so anyway. Someone upthread said it was unprofessional to step out of the system and do this. Yet if a situation escalates suddenly it may be the only course of action.

Yes, I can see the flaws in a database system, but we really haven't got anything else as good in place. People do their best, but communication between many parties can be a right bugger at the best of times. I don't know what the solution is really.

But the people who are saying it is 100% the parents to blame, yes, I agree. I think the outside agencies have a tough job, working within their remits. And like someone else said, you never hear about the success stories. If only we had a foolproof system.

Still, I wish that Daniel had been one of them, and that his short life had not been one of misery and pain. He would have had a chance with foster parents

What I'm trying to say is, on that system, all the little details added up. Every visit, every letter, every call, every concern in school. It made a picture. We don't have anything like that now, afaik.

I work in secondary. I have called Social Services, the police, involved school nurses, EWOs, the lot. But I can't physically stop parents hurting their children. There are some I want to 'kidnap' to get them out of the shit situations they live in - take them home and look after them properly. It is fucking awful.

'But I can't physically stop parents hurting their children' - yes absolutely. The responsibility is always with the abuser.

Yes but child protection has to be pretentative, combative not just a reaction to an event. Of course the parents are responsible for this crime but major flaws enabled this to proceed to such an extent that a child is dead. I'm sorry but abusers to murders - why was that escalation not stopped?

Maybe there should be some sort of "coordination SW" that works in the schools that coordinates information of any concerns. Figuring if they are now starting funded nursery places at 2yo, that's from at least 2yo onwards. They could have the power to liase with medical personnel, police, and SWs regarding children. This person would also get copies of any police contacts with the children, any SW contacts, any concerns reported by medical concerns. Perhaps that type of position is now necessary in order to avoid the problem of lack of communication between the agencies - this would literally BE the link. That would be the main purpose of the job - pulling all this information together with a view to safeguarding children.

I would be happy to see my taxes go up a bit in order to fund this type of position in schools. I say schools because this means the huge data base between all agencies would then not be needed. If a child moves, then data will be copied and sent to the new school for their coordination SW to review and continue on in their area.

Obviously I could be incredibly naïve, but doesn't it seem that the whole problem is that the lack of communication means that there is no "one agency or person" that has the whole picture?

And really - does every do the best they can do in a job or do most, a large minority just do enough. All the jobs I have worked in I have never witnessed that level of commitment.

I see quite lot of student social workers through work, and generally speaking they are all nice, enthusiastic people who openly say that they want to be a SW because they enjoy working with people, want to help people, want to help people live the best and happiest lives they can. It's lovely. It's also sad because you know that actually, they are going to be so bogged down with the constraints of the local authority and the law, as well as shockingly high case loads and a lack of support, that they will never really get the chance to do a decent job, and stuff like this will slip through the net and not only will a poor child have to go through this, but the SW then has to live with that for the rest of their lives. Second guessing every choice they made in their interactions with the family.

I don't know what exactly went wrong here though the themes seem to lack of communication and joined up working, a very manipulative couple who managed to convince the school and other HCPs of their lies, family and friends who seem very quick to blame social services but can't offer up an explanation of what they were doing. It's just so sad and pointless and this little boy ultimately paid the price.

I would like to think that if I thought this was happening to someone that I knew, that I would do something. But if that doing something is reporting them to SS, I don't have a huge amount of confidence that anything would actually happen. Not because the staff are crap, but because the system is such a nightmare.

Slightly off topic, I wondered if others felt the same as me about this: The thing that has got to me the most is that he was denied food/starved. Maybe my feelings about motherhood are too wrapped up in the 'you must nourish them!' rhetoric, but to me it's almost a primal need to feed and water my child, that the idea of someone deliberately starving theirs makes me so angry and upset. The violence... seems to have effected me less than the starving. I can't watch it on the news as I keep crying (which isn't going to achieve anything) at the idea of this poor hungry little boy.

Yes of course there are great, committed SWs that work hard and a lot of problems exist due to financial cuts and what we prioritise in this country. Coordinating Actors to work effectively for the needs of the child costs money and a shift in societal expectations of what child protection should be concerned with as it is nowhere near that ideal yet!

I think reporting the actions of the teachers in a negative way will simply lead to people not saying anything. Imagine if the reports were saying 'there is no evidence, no past complaints, nothing, this child just died one night' - the only people being blamed would be his parents. And yet because the adults involved DID do something, they are being blamed.

I dont think anyone would actually think 'I wont say anything in case I get in trouble' but I think subconciously teachers wont want to get involved.

We should be encouraging people to constantly come forward. It should be made easier and easier for teachers to make their concerns known. The teachers who said something should be congratulated. They did SOMETHING.

Whilst questions must be asked as to what could have been done to prevent this indescribable series of events, I can't begin to imagine what Daniel's teachers and all the other professionals involved must be feeling.

I understand why people point the finger, but from where I'm sitting I can't see anything anyone could have done that, without the benefit of hindsight, would not have had people crying 'nanny state do-gooders', or worse.

Which isn't to say that that lessons can't be learnt.

And how many times a year do we read about 'heavy handed' social workers and people complaining about social services getting involved when the parents think they are in the right etc. Social workers can't do anything right as far as the tabloid press goes.

I thought briefly about becoming a SW, till I learned what a thoroughly demoralising job it is. I've met so many totally burned out SWs, it's depressing.

Wellthen, teachers work with children- they have a moral and professional obligation to report their concerns. That is why they did 'something'.

If you work in child protection or with children I think you should be prepared to ignore labels of the 'nanny state'.

This case is not just been written and spoken about the tabloids though is it? It has also be reported and discussed by those with credibility- Radio 4, the broadsheets.

That wasn't my point really. No matter what social workers do, they get accused of doing the wrong thing. Everyone thinks they know better. And hind sight is always 20:20.

You can't just tell people to ignore accusations of being part of the 'nanny state' because when public perception is that you are just an interfering busy body who either wont actually do anything to protect children, or are planning on swooping in in the middle of the night to steal perfectly well looked after children from their beds, these people create barriers to you doing your job.

I agree with you HopALongOn, there is some special evil to slowly starving a child to death. it must have been agony for him surrounded by food he couldn't access and people who just couldn't see the wood for the trees.

also for me the blatant texting with glee between the patents as to how they had/ were going to torture him.

on a par with the Wests and Bradey/Hinkey.

I hope they die violently in prison I really do.

I can't stop thinking about this poor little boy, and all the unloved children he represents.

Whilst the blame must 100% lie with his parents who are simply evil, I feel this case also shows how the NHS constantly let's down those who are unable to speak for themselves.

The "parents" managed to convince the medical profession that he had some strange metabolic condition and those around him fell for their excuses as they didn't dare question medical authority.

My DH has a life-limiting medical condition and is under consultant care. His consultant regularly writes to our GP with details of his condition, details of drugs that are incompatible with his condition or with other medication he is prescribed and recommendations for treatments. Recently through DH reading the letters he has been cced onto and looking up drug names and their generic names we have discovered that the GP has merrily been prescribing something DH should never take. DH is intelligent enough (just) to have taken an interest in his care and has been able to address this.

Tragically in the case of small children and the elderly this disgraceful paper trail of misinformation means that things aren't spotted, aren't questioned and aren't treated.

The GP was happy to accept the parents word for the fact this little boy was being seen by a specialist. They never bothered to check whether this was the case. It's too easy to assume that communication is caught in a backlog of paperwork.

Yes it is crap, but this child is not the first and sadly won't be the last.

Why?

Because abusers are deceitful, conniving and utterly convincing. They will cover their tracks as much as they can and because MOST people do not treat their children in this way they are given the benefit of the doubt.

More children will die and everyone involved in those children's lives will miss the opportunities to save them because they will believe what they are being told by parents, doctors letters etc.

Can you imagine a child with a genuine metabolic issue being referred to social services because they were losing weight like this child was. The parents would be straight on here and ranting under AIBU to which they would be reassured YANBU. They would go to the press and shout loud and clear that their child is not being abused.

Because accusing a parent of abuse is awful and nobody wants to do it and make a mistake.

Everyone talks about "safeguarding" but it appears that they are just paying lip service to it and children are suffering either through unintentional neglect or willful cruelty

I don't understand, after the whole Baby P thing that this can still slip through the net

If you are genuinely interested OP, it is worth reading the Monroe Report.

I don't know enough about the case to comment.