to complain about midwife (internal/assault)

[Hensinthehedgerow]

I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section. I'm in search of some opinions. This may not sound like much to complain about to some people. But this has really affected me and my marriage and I can't seem to move on.

In summary, I had a birth plan, it said no internal examinations and everything done needs to be explained to me. I thought she was doing an external examination, but instead did an internal which was very painful and basically in public view after my husband had been sent out of the room. I wish I had kicked her in the head and screamed and called the police, but I was holding my newborn baby and didn't I want to cry, I can't sleep.

I raised these issues with the som who said it shouldn't have happened an that she would speak to the midwives. Then emailed me to say the midwives agreed more communication would have been helpful to me wft

I have no idea if making a formal complaint will help. But can't let this go. Aibu to complain. The midwives were horrible and essentially bullied my husband. I guess it's wwyd? Sorry for the ramble.

[YoniMontana]

And SarahandFuck!

[UniqueAndAmazing]

a major part of being an HCP is making sure everything is followed to the letter.
that's because it's such a high pressured environment that it's minimising anything going wrong and being blamed if it does.

[Hensinthehedgerow]

Nurse you are the reason the VHS terrifies me I hope you we reported and sacked

[Hensinthehedgerow]

nhs silly phone

[UniqueAndAmazing]

nurse - they've been too ill to consent to - i would assume that you'd then get next of kin permission?

the one that in the OP had been deliberately sent out of the room so he couldn't object...

[ANormalOne]

Yoni

I experienced it myself at the hands of a doctor lying to me about medical treatment and treating me incredibly roughly, including stitching me without adequate anesthetic to the point where my DM stepping in and stopped her because I was screaming in agony. As a rape survivor, I'm still traumatized by my birth.

Just doing her job though, don't you know, they're all so under pressure and that means it's okay.

[maja00]

nurse - when you say you have done procedures on patients who have not consented and have fought against it, do you mean people lacking mental capacity? Some kind of court order in place?

This obviously does not apply to the OP - she had the capacity to consent or not.

[YoniMontana]

ANormal that's awful. I'm sorry that happened to you.

I don't understand how they can ignore somebody screaming like that (I was too after about the sixth time someone had their entire hand inside me). Where has their empathy gone?

[ReginaPhilangie]

OP I'm so sorry this happened. I do think you should complain, and also seek some counselling for yourself.

I don't really get the posters who are giving the OP a hard time? I don't get how this is not assault? How fricking easy is it to say, "I just need to examine you now and that includes doing an internal, is that all right with you"? Which is exactly what the midwives said to me after both my kids were born. Each time I had an internal I was asked beforehand and told what they were doing and why. How hard is it for a HCP to treat the patient like a human being and not a piece of meat? I'm sure if someone stuck a finger up your arse without telling you you'd have something to say about it, so why the fuck is it any different if it just happens to be your vagina?

[SadOldGit]

hens

I am so sorry this happened to you and fully understand that you feel violated.

The midwife would have wanted to examine you for vaginal/pernineal trauma (tears or grazes). the examination is important as if you had for example an undiagnosed 3rd degree tear it could lead to problems with continence.

however the midwife should have explained to you what she why and how she wanted to examine you and under no circumstances should she have done this without consent. If you declined consent - and I imagine you would have - she would have been obliged to document this clearly in your records (and no doubt you would have had a more senior midwife/Dr then ask you again etc)

[Madamecastafiore]

I wonder what would happen if someone refused an internal and bled to death due to post labour complications or had some sort of internal damage that was not picked up and that was discovered at a later date.

Sorry to sound insensitive but I do think people need to be aware that it is highly likely that you will need to be examined internally during labour and prepare yourself for it beforehand.

I am also not quite sure what you mean by being in public view? Was you in the corridor or in a room with other people present who were not part of the medical team?

[nurseneedshelp]

Eh? Reported and sacked for what???

Providing emergency care for dying patients!

Think that's very unfair as you don't know me!
I was stuck at work for an extra two hours last night dealing with a fatal stabbing so don't start coming out with shit like that op! I'm one of the most dedicated sisters in our department.

Sorry that the NHS terrifies you and that you had a bad experience, speak to PALS.
Off to bed as I've got another 12 hour night shift to do!

[makingdoo]

I can't believe some if the responses on this thread!!

Whether or not Hens needed the examination or not is NOT THE BLOODY POINT!!
The midwife didnt ask consent or make it clear what was about to happen. OP obviously had an issue with this beforehand so tried to protect herself from this exact situation by having it noted in her birth plan. The Midwife didnt check this.

I have never been pregnant but I can still understand why the OP feels as she does. Complain OP and please try to get some counselling.

[maja00]

Madamecastafiore - you are allowed to refuse medical treatment even if it would lead to your death. The HCPs need to share as much information with the patient as possible to allow them to make an informed decision, but they can't impose their views of what is best.

[ANormalOne]

I wonder what would happen if someone refused an internal and bled to death due to post labour complications or had some sort of internal damage that was not picked up and that was discovered at a later date.

Nothing would happen. The patient has the right to refuse medical treatment, and as long as the complications are explained to her and she knows them, it's purely her decision.

[MrsMangoBiscuit]

Pinupgirl, I'm very sorry for your loses, I can't begin to imagine what you've been through. However, your experiences, and your happiness to consent, does not mean that all women have to consent, or that they should just accept what was done to them.

ballinacup, as a woman who has had experiences of both sexual assault, and having a medical procedure I did not consent to, during labour, I can assure you, maja is not making me feel insulted in the slightest. For me, the medical procedure was actually more disturbing. It was the surrealism of it. I was in a hospital, where I should have been safe, surrounded by people who claimed to be caring for me. Both my husband and I were so shocked neither of us could react.

OP, you are not over reacting, and I'm so sorry this happened to you.

[rowtunda]

FFS the midwife asked if it was ok if she could check her - this is probably the terminology she uses dozens of times a day. The midwife may have been busy and not fully read the notes and therefore not realised that she had to explain in detail the examination she was about to carry out - probably as she does this 'check' dozens of times each day. If you ask the midwife I'm sure she would feel she had gained consent.

I am a HCP and I can imagine using the term 'shall I check down there' etc and esp in the immediate post birth environment I would have thought this would have been enough for consent.

Whilst I feel for OP that she didn't realise what she was consenting to I feel it is unfair to describe this as assault, at the end of the day the midwife was doing her job to make sure that the patient was healthy and her perineum was intact - a vital part of the postnatal care surely. Not great care I agree but not worthy of the massive out pouring of indignation directed towards the midwife

[eurochick]

nurse you sound very lucky not to have been sued so far if that is how you carry out your job.

[scallopsrgreat]

Completely agree with maja00 and others. The analogy with a man sexually assaulting you it is perfectly valid. Neither are with consent. And as we can see from the OP both can leave you feeling violated. Not sure why different motivations matter. Not gaining consent is not gaining consent.

Women are human beings, with valid feelings and bodily autonomy and integrity. No-one has the right to touch you where you don't want to be touched. No-one.

[maja00]

rowtunda - I don't think the midwife being lazy/inaccurate in her wording is an excuse. It is her responsibility to gain informed consent.

The midwife didn't gain consent, didn't read the notes, as an a result of her actions left the OP hurt and traumatised. Assault is perfectly accurate.

Hopefully the OP's complain will result in this midwife getting some training on what consent means. Maybe you will reflect on your practice too?

[Rooners]

I agreed to an internal during my last labour, and while she was in there the MW did a sweep - which I hadn't asked for, didn't want and didn't consent to.

She told me after she'd done it while I was requesting an epidural and about an hour from giving birth. I said isn't that to speed things up? (was having ctx about every minute) and she said yes, and I said I didn't want it to speed up, I can't cope and wanted an epidural.

I didnt complain to anyone but the more I think about it the more fed up it makes me. She had been fobbing me off about having pain relief for ages already.

[mignonette]

Yes she should have explained fully and sought explicit consent. I am a HP and cannot condone what she allegedly did but do understand why, in a busy, oversubscribed, underfunded and under pressure unit these things happen-that a Midwife might think that asking to do a 'check' would be adequate and convey what she meant to do.

And I am not condoning her actions, merely trying to explain why these harried/hurried oversights happen before the MN attack dogs are set on me.

Sending husband out? Ask why this happened.

But the claim that internals are unnecessary and that there is nothing that can be detected via an internal alone that vigilant observational Midwifery cannot is not true (made by previous poster).

The start of my own cord prolapse was detected via digital examination where no outward signs of it had manifested.

I understand that you were newly delivered OP but beware of absolute statements about what can/cannot be detected via each specific intervention. Go to PALS and write down as objectively as you can, what happened, where and when. You can explain the reasons for your distress and the effect it has had upon you in another part of your statement to them.

[maja00]

I have had midwives say they want to "just do a little check" and then actually perform a sweep in one case and attempt to break my waters in another. Using something vague like "little check" to do whatever you feel is best is not a substitute for gaining informed consent I'm afraid - even if it is quicker/more convenient for the HCP.

[frogwatcher42]

And they wonder why there is a shortage of midwives! Surely if you are giving birth you expect to be examined down there both in and out if necessary. I can't imagine a midwife does it when it isn't necessary - why would they?

If the midwife had found a perforation resulting in saving your life I suppose the internal would have been excusable?

[maja00]

frog - it doesn't matter if the internal was justified, not gaining consent isn't justifiable.

It's a surprise how many HCPs on this thread see gaining informed consent not as an absolutely basic part of providing care, but as an optional extra that can be dispensed with if they are busy.