To wonder if DH is having an EA

[youvegotmail]

I've never heard of an EA before being on Mumsnet, but now I'm wondering if DH is having one.......

He's had a friendship with a woman he works with for over a year now, and I've never been totally comfortable with it, but I thought I was a jealous hag (she's young and bloody gorgeous of course)

She and my DH get on really well - they work in different offices for the same company, and he is senior to her. They met when he was doing her induction and he came home and told me they'd hired this great person for the role and how pleased he was, how lovely she was etc (so not hiding anything). Then their contact from then on is mostly through email although about six times a year they have to do presentatons together in the same place. I know they email a ton and it's not all work related - lots of jokes (like ones between just them - stupid stuff) and chatting as they like all the same things - I thought DH and I had shitloads in common but now I think they have more. I know this because his work emails come through to our iPad so are open for me to see - he's never hidden them. It pisses me off though to see a string of 10+ emails over the course of the day just chatting and making stupid fucking jokes. Theres an accasional Facebook message too.

I have said something about her a couple of times to him, when the friendship/EA/whatever really seemed to be taking off and the contact was high. I said that he was being unprofessional and inappropriate and that they were getting too friendly and I was uncomfortable and he didn't agree but both times he then totally toned it down for a few months and went all brusqueu with her, but then it builds again.

I've met her three times at work functions and I'm quite ashamed to say that I was not friendly - in fact DH afterwards said he was embarrassed and that I made it very awkward for no reason. She does seem really nice - but I can't get over the feeling she's getting too close to my husband and shouldn't be emailing him in a friendly way - he is her senior at work and they are both married (we have 3 DCs age 17, 15 and 11 and she has a very young DC not sure of exact age).

There is never anything at all flirty, sexual, suggestive or even much personal in their messages its more just the sheer volume of them and the fact that he clearly thinks shes really funny and clever - their banter really gets under my skin.

AIBU?

[AnyFucker]

miranda...having a little "holiday together" is verging into "rewarding him for bad behaviour" territory, IMO

good will should be withdrawn in a situation like this

no sexual competitiveness, no making yourself sweeter to reel him back in, no child free treats or weekends away, no extra blow jobs

tell him straight

family life with, yes, it's sometimes daily drudgery or off you go, sunshine

[Beastofburden]

Well, my suggestion of inviting her over was made up thread, and as more has emerged about his behaviour, I think it is quite likely he has already gone too far for this to become a family friendship, so I agree it wouldn't be a great idea now.

[Seenenoughtoknow]

Am still with Anyfucker totally on this...including the ultimatum.

[CookieLady]

Op, please listen to AF. He's crossed the line and taking you for a fool. You're worth more than this. You deserve to better.

[Cherriesarelovely]

Completely agree with AF, tell him asap and don't apologise for anything.

[DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper]

...but can I ask why, if everything is out in the open, on Facebook and texts which you can access, you think it is an affair? Surely if there was malintent it would be conducted in secret.

Others have answered this, but... maybe because it's still in the pre-affair, emotional affair stage? People don't meet someone and - bam - enter into an affair seconds later.

Unless it's a ships-that-pass-in-night-drunken-ONS, then there is almost always a very protracted build-up of getting to know each other, having a "celestial connection", flirting, bantering, yada, yada, yada period, where things move from being totally acceptable, to being something most people wouldn't want their partner to indulge in,min the slightest.

This seems to be the bit that a lot of people struggle to understand when they share the circumstances of their own, perfectly legitimate platonic friendships. These platonic friendships are a different kettle of fish from the build-up to an affair friendships, altogether.

And a lot of people seem not to realise that, again, affairs don't spring from nowhere. They evolve over time, under exactly the sort of circumstances the OP describes. The OP feels this isn't right because it doesn't feel right. And this is why people coming on to share their apples experience with the OP's pears situation is irrelevant.

[GoodTouchBadTouch]

Right OP, just the fact that she is a different generation would surely exclude her from the best mate category.. like you say, do you have any close male friends in their twenties? Weird.

I agree with Don, it sounds like the lead up to an actual affair.

I don't know what I would do, I don't think Id be strong enough for the ultimatum suggested by AF. But Id definitely confront him, tell him what you know. See what his reaction is when you ask why he emailed her almost the moment he woke up.

Thinking of you YGM. I would feel totally miserable and scared in your situation xx

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

In answer to those who say : Why isn't he hiding it?

It's because he's feeling quite happy. He's started to forget how important his wife is, started taking her friendship for granted, and has no idea what he stands to lose. In short - he is in a little bubble.

[myroomisatip]

You say you would like to see his phone, well then, sit him down at a time when you wont be interrupted and ask to see it. Do not accept any excuses, or give him a chance to delete anything. You will learn a lot from his response I am sure.

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

I would guess he probably isn't shagging her, but he's thinking about her a lot, sharing himself with her, sharing his happiness with her. It's an outrageous betrayal but he's not even aware of it yet.

OP I'm so sorry for your position and you need to get coldly angry. You have every right.

[JamieandtheMagicTorch]

AF

I think there is an underlying fear in women to not be accused of being a nag, a harridan, a control freak, jealous.

In short, fear of asserting oneself and legitimate expectations and emotional reactions to men

Well. sod that. We aren't teenagers.

[tittytittyhanghang]

Personally i think it comes down ultimately to do you trust your husband? I don't think of this as cool or hip or whatever derogatory term some people upthread have classed it as.

If you dont, and think that this friendship (and that is what it is at the moment) is the very very beginning of an affair then why would you even consider wanting to stay with a man that in your view, is capable of cheating on you? And whose friendships you feel the need to 'monitor' to make sure he doesn't have an affair.

And if you do trust him, then from your posts, id suggest the problem is not that he is too involved with his friend but that he is not giving you the same amount of attention.

[CuppaTeaForTheBigFella]

I agree with AF and Jamie. It's one thing emailing each other at work, to help pass the time of day, (if its innocent chat) but first thing in the morning and evening is not good IMO.
He sounds like he is getting a bit infatuated with her, or at least, the friendship. You need to put a stop to it OP, otherwise surely they are just going to get closer to each other.
If he loves and respects you, he will cool this friendship down, for good this time. If he doesn't then you have some thinking to do...
I'm sorry you are in this shit situation, I know how much it hurts!

[Buttercup4]

why wouldn't he hide it

Simple - it may not have become a physical affair yet and, therefore, in his head, it isn't a an affair. Sadly, OP, it certainly looks like its heading that way.

I think some people here seem to be of the opinion that there isn't an affair until sex, for the OPs sake she needs to stop anything before it gets that far. Why wait until it goes that far, it can't be undone at that point.

OP, You have said he has cut things off before and been rude, to be honest if it was my DH & I in this situation I wouldn't care if he cut her off in a rude way. She is disrespecting you and your DC by taking up time with their your husband and their father in the evenings. If she wants to be friendly at work, by all means. There is a line your DH needs to understand that it's been crossed and you need to tell him how much this is upsetting you and that you are not going to tolerate ths behaviour making you feel ths way.

The bottom line is, does his friendship with this girl mean more to him than your feelings.

[shotofexpresso]

Have you said anything to him yet OP?

[impatienttobemummy]

i'm with myroomisatip that is EXACTLY what I would do. Sit down and say i'd like to see your phone right now. You have MORE than enough justification to do it. The fact that his phone isn't readily available to you is setting bells off for me. My DH leaves his phone all over the place and i could pick it up anytime I like. I would be hopping mad about this if it was my DH and i'd have pulled him up on it and given an AF style kick up the bum ages ago. You should be his priority.

[Snugglepiggy]

Hope you are OK YGM? I would ask to see his phone knowing what I know retrospectively about how these 'friendships' build and cross boundaries.This is so reminiscent of my DH chuckling over a text early one morning whilst we were having breakfast, it was a little in - joke from his 'friend' and an oh so helpful little comment about the road conditions - it was winter and snowy - and I queried genuinely and in a very relaxed way why she was texting as as far as I knew she was only a very passing acquaintance.I was totally trusting at that point.But that was enough to make DH wary and I realized not much later that's when he started to delete their texts.
I would want to see all their recent conversations now,without giving him any warning.And then have a serious discussion about respect for you and your marriage.

[MissMarplesBloomers]

Agree with the AF camp, summat is not right. He guards his phone, but is open asbout other emails.....hmm that smacks to me of providing a smokescreen.

If I were the Op (but I'm not so just speculating) I'd love to invite Miss FlashyKnickers over for supper with the DH/DP & watch the body language & tension.

YANBU Something Is Going On.....

[Maggieshack]

oh dear i had this my husband used to talk and text all day long, all they do is take everything from your relationship and ruin it i never knew anything about this other woman till i hacked into his mobile phone account and found text messages hundreds through the day and when he went out with his mates on a friday night and phone calls that lasted sometimes an hour when i was at work on a saturday when i confronted him he didn't see what the problem was until i expained then it finally sunk in its called an emotional affair and its worse than any other affair please sort it out before its too late

[phantomnamechanger]

OP, I have felt similarly betrayed - in my case it was discovering my straight as a die noble upright moral christian DH had developed a fondness for very soft (but still not acceptable in OUR marriage) online porn.[please porn lovers don't come on here to slag me off about being boring frigid unrealistic etc - I had enough of that back then when i posted, as the op has done, trying to find help in dealing with it all. i just wanted to share with op something similar]

I gave him an ultimatum - I challenged him. he admitted it all and was mortified at how he had allowed himself to get drawn in and become addicted, curious, immune to the feelings that he knew it was wrong. I was angry, hurt, we both cried. he described it as being in a bubble, that he had convinced himself it was not real etc. He had not thought about how this would impact on me at all.

he vowed never to hurt me again like that and bucked his ideas up, investing more time in me and us, he totally got that I wold have trouble trusting him again but 3 yrs on we are stronger than ever (married 16 yrs in all)

Your DP needs to see sense like this - to admit he is in the wrong and that his actions have hurt you, the most important person in his life.

If he is not man enough to do this and there is any hint of denial or this all being in your jealous little mind and nothing untoward, or that its somehow your fault for not giving him the attention she does, then he's out the door. It really is that simple - does he want his flirtatious email affair , or you and your marriage and family life. If he picks the former he is an arse and you are well rid.

[thefattwins]

Have you spoken to him OP? How are you?

[fluffyraggies]

OP i think you have to allow yourself to be angry. To hell with the snooping or not snooping. Don't let it even register in the conversation.

If it was me - honestly - i'd have lost my rag by now and told him i know exactly how often he's thinking about her and talking to her and what is being said and i'm fucking furious and if he wants to stay with me then it stops. No if's or buts's. And i'd be angry enough to pack his bags, i'm afraid, if he didn't make exactly the right noises. I love my husband dearly - it'd hurt like hell - but i wont be made a fool of.

There's no need to get into a discussion about what you know or how you know. In fact, keep that your secret. If there IS more than you know then he'll be anxious that you've found out, and if there isn't more than you know then - good! But he still needs a wake up call.

You can't go on like this.
How's it going?

[spotscotch]

I can't really tell if there is anything going on here, there is a significant chance that it could be completely innocent, but you obviously feel something is up.

However, there are some ridiculous and hilarious assumptions being made about the ops husband! How can people possibly know that 'it's defo an emotional affair' or that her DH has 'an ego the size of a house'. It is possible to give advice to someone without making totally derogatory wild assumptions about the sort of person their DH is.

[skyeskyeskye]

After my XH left and came back, he talked about OW all the time. Unknown to me, he was texting her and emailing her all day long. As soon as he left the house at 8am he started texting her, right through the day, up until bedtime, it turned out to be thousands of texts a month.

He talked about her incessantly, what she was doing, how her H was being mean to her (his best mate), how her H didnt understand her, blah blah blah. XH deleted all emails, texts, facebook chat, everything

My gut instinct when I saw that very first email was that something was up. I didn't act on it, because I couldnt believe that my XH would do that to me and I was terrified that he would leave again if I upset him .

In the future, I would not hesitate to discuss inappropriate contact with a partner, as it is very damaging to your relationship.

[OrmirianResurgam]

"In the future, I would not hesitate to discuss inappropriate contact with a partner, as it is very damaging to your relationship"

Yep. 100%