to want to remind people who say the unemployed and sahm's are lazy and

[martini84]

Should go and get a job that on average 5 people apply for every job and this rises to 45 for entry level jobs.
Not quite that simple.

i dontt hink you can put sahm and the unemployed in the same box really,most sahm arent looking for employment,or i would assume that anyway.

I dont think i will ever work again,unless i had to.

Oh and this may seem a little off topic, but since you had the high flying well paid career 25 years ago morethanpotatoprints (you've told us countless times about how much tax you've paid!) it seems a little odd that in those days of no tax credits, no childcare subsidies and mortgage interest rates hitting 16% that you got your husband to be sole earner on minimum wage, rather than enabling him to be a SAHP and you carry the financial burden.

Morethan, quite rich to say you dont expect others to pay your childcare when you work yet you will quite willingly take from the tax credits pot every month. Oh no sorry, your DH does so thats different

I also recall from another thread that rather than claim JSA you plan to become an employee of your husband and split his salary so that you still qualify for top up benefits.

The system is flawed and UC fixes some things but not all as those that simply wont work will find ways around it. We need the goverenment to be far stricter. Have a safety net for those that cant work due to their disabilities but remove any payment or top up simply because people dont want to work or want to work just a few hours. Other tax payers should not pay people to be SAHPs, if they cant afford the childcare they should have thought about that before having children. Its not rocket science.

I don't really see why morethan's lifestyle is so objectionable TBH?!

It's odd to be so incensed by how someone else decides to arrange their work/childcare. It isn't easy for anyone.

Why be so offended?

For those who say if you need to claim tax credits you shouldn't stay at home a question. Why is it only the rich that are allowed to raise their own children?
Why do I have to farm them out for others to raise which lets face it as uncomfortable as this truth might be is what those of you using full time childcare are doing.
I tell you what why don't all mothers who earn under a certain income have their babies they can have the first 6 months we are not barbaric after all and then the babies get shipped off to be raised by goverment approved agencies to return when they are 18 and ready for work. The mothers in the meantime will be able to return to the only thing she is here for work without any drain on her time paying a fixed amount out of her wage each month to provide for the child.
Without tax credits we would be poorer but I still wouldn't work even with them all in school. If I did guess what? My partner would give up work why? Because he too believes that we should raise our own children.
How about scrapping tax credits and simply raising minimum wage to a living wage surely then it would be ok in your eyes for us to sah

It's not about being personally offended piano, it's about the sense of injustice of the system. A system which allows itself to be manipulated is clearly wrong. Like I said earlier, there will always be variation in what people feel is 'acceptable' to them. Some will see it as quite normal for a couple to work full time, some see it as a 'right' to have one person not working at all, some see part time working as a 'right'... The system is totally open to being manipulated

An effective system doesn't work on the basis of people deciding for themself what they'd quite like. It works on setting a clear baseline and then from that point rewarding people incrementally- ie the more you work, the more you should earn.

Oh gawd... Here we go, the 'working parents don't raise their own children ' malarkey.....
Well, to use the delightful terminology above, my children were 'farmed out' to childminder and nursery 3 days a week from a few months old, and since they started school DH and I have both worked full time.

Unfortunately for people like the poster above, our children are very happy and well adjusted teenagers. Sorry about that, I know it would be preferable for you to think they aren't but I ain't gonna lie

I think laziness is underrated , I was a SAHM precisely because I have a lazy streak. I love pottering about and would love to do it permanently . I have reached a compromise and am now a teacher, so every six weeks I can indulge my laziness.

I raise my children , someone helps me do it so I can raise my child's. whilst wearing good quality footwear.

HappyMummy

No I don't intend to work for my dh for a wage, I have always done this free of charge.
However, I have considered it as we were advised to take advantage of the tax break that would be associated with this. I have asked questions as to how this works on threads yes.

janey

I gave up my career by choice when I was pregnant with ds1 and my dh kept his career as we both thought this best. It wasn't to gain TC because they didn't exist. I don't know why it is so difficult for you to see that everybody isn't motivated by the same things. My dh doesn't earn now as much as I did in the late 1980's. It was my choice and dh agreed.

I'm very happy to hear that they have grown up so well adjusted well done that childminder. However if you are quite happy to sit back and start "benefit bashing" don't be surprised to have people defending their way of life and attack is the best form of defense

Yeap the childminder was fab... My kids love her and only just stopped going before school because now they are - shock horror!- old enough and independent enough to be at home after DH and I have left for work

I bet what pisses you off even more bunny, is that as well as having a great cm and many happy nursery memories, they still love mum and dad most!

Arisbottle

Should say children, I may use the money I earn ,whilst someone raises my children, to buy a phone with a better auto correct.

I think the value and importance of a mother who chooses to stay at home is vastly underestimated :(

No what pisses me off most is your attitude that I am not entitled to raise my own children.
I wonder If you realise that in order to receive tax credits you must first pay tax by you know at least one of you having a job.
Tax credits were put there as a top up to help families to survive as minimum wage wasn't and still isn't enough to support a family. What would your thoughts be towards sahm if they bumped up minimum wage to living wage or would i simply be scrounging off my partner as opposed to the state

Nobody has said SAHM's are uneducated morons. Honestly, why is this nonsense spouted in these debates.

Ha Ha, yes bravo for the child minders raising the dc so well.

I personally believe you get out what you put in. The argument of dc being brought up in a household where only one parent works and having a poor work ethic is absurd.
My ds1 has several pt jobs as nobody is secure nowadays. My ds2 has a pt job after just leaving school, this was gained in an hour.
My dd is already pt employed and earning bits and pieces, she is 9
Oh, they are all well adjusted and tell anybody who will listen they are glad mum was at home. I am very proud of them

Why on earth would I think you are scrounging off your partner? Honestly, what a ridiculous idea. Of course NMW should be higher. If a couple want one of them to not work then that's fine, that's a personal arrangement between them.
And please can we get away from this insidious 'only SAHP raise their children'... Most of us on here, particularly with older kids, know how nonsensical the phrase is and laugh at it, but there may be some vulnerable mums of babies out there who find the phrase hurtful. It's also not the cleverest phrase for a SAHM to use because it kinda suggests you don't think your husband has any input into parenting ....

Is it really necessary to use the old fall back insult of "at least I am raising my own children rather than farming them out to someone else"?

The reality is for some people that tax credits do allow them to stay at home. Because if one person is not earning a living wage, the other person would have no option but to go to work, if tax credits didnt exist.

Personally, I don't care what people do. The fact is, the tax credit system is there to help people on low incomes. There's no cheating or fraud going on, is there?
If one parent is on a low income they are fully entitled to claim tax credits whilst the other parent stays at home.

When ds1 and dd were in full time nursery, after travel and nursery fees I earned £12 a week. I went to work because it was important to me to continue my career and it has paid off 15 years later. But that's my choice.
I don't expect to have to justify it to anyone and I would not expect a SAHP to think they have to justify why their OH is claiming tax credits.

Although, I do agree with a pp up thread. I wouldn't be happy to be the sole wage earner whilst my DH stayed at home now all my DCs are at school. But again, that's my thoughts, I don't expect everyone to make the same choices.

Like many on here I have been a wohm and a sahm. In spite of the shit stirring of a determined few we are not two tribes.

Please don't try and justify your choice by slagging off someone's else's.
We all have different circumstances and it makes everyone look stupid.

Tantrums

I think the problem arises because some people don't believe TC should be paid where one parent isn't working, irrespective of choice, or circumstance.
Apparently, everybody should work and not be given the choice to sah because others have decided to work instead.

janey

You made the choice to work and not receive tax credits, some people chose not to work, some people choose not to work and their oh happens to get TC. It seems to me you are of other peoples choices, or the fact they got TC and maybe your dh earned too much for you to qualify.

Piano I think the value we place on our role is reflected in how we interpret other's comments.

I have been a SAHM for varying lengths for my four children, I thought it was an important role, although I have to admit that wanting to do as little as I could was my primary motivation. Perhaps because I was confident in my role I found others valued what I was doing.

That's a very fair and balanced post tantrums. Just to clarify though- people aren't accusing others of fraud. It's the system which is wrong, and which allows for people to manipulate it - all entirely legally. It's not fit for purpose which is why of course it's changing. You're absolutely right that NMW should be higher. That's the single most important thing which should change. It will never work to have a system which tops up incomes for less work or lower paid work- what we need is greater rewards for the work done

What an odd post morethan.. If I was jealous I'd stop working because DH and I both earn enough that we could be the sole earner. Fortunately I have an interesting job and aren't afraid of work though