I am certain you will think IABU but...IL / pfb related...

[mameulah]

In a nutshell...my dh does not have lots of happy memories of his childhood. Hardly any. He speaks highly of his Grandad but that is it. Basically his parents were not demonstrative or thoughtful or gentle or interested as he was growing up.

His sister hasn't spoken to his parents for ten years.

He has seen very little of his parents as an adult. Very little.

We have a pfb ds who is now eight months old. They saw him twice before Christmas and again today for the third time.

Seeing them with our pfb ds is so difficult. I struggle with it so much. I know I am really generous in how I share our pfb ds with EVERYONE ELSE. I know I am. But the angst I feel in their company when they are with our baby is awful.

Does anyone else have an experience similar to this? How did you cope?

Please don't flame me. I promise you this is not a typical IL bashing situation.

they have no ownership op, dc is his own person who you and your dh protect/adore.

they sound mad. re cat thing no I don't say pus pus etch to my cat but rather ' mamma loves you sooo much' 😉

at least they won't be visiting and interfering too much but what a Shame for your dh and his sister! what is wrong with some parents..

frisson, if they are contributing to your distress can you stop visiting? or is that too difficult?

What did they actually write on the calendar? Did they wrote Son's wedding? Or Nick's wedding?

I really want to, but I also don't want to be the bad DIL who won't allow gp's to see their gc.

I think it's a common problem actually with il's, or seems to be amongst my friends!

If I have a boy, I'm adamant I"m going to make friends with my DIL first and then try to be a great gp!

I imagine your DH wanted to show off his child because he wants to please and impress them - a natural desire, and especially if they never showed him before that they were pleased or impressed by him.

I think I'd feel just as you do.

My GF was not a good father to my mum but was a good GF. My mum allowed us a relationship with him, and we knew nothing of her difficult relationship with him but whilst I think she was generous in doing this, maybe it cost her too much in that she never was able to act assertively with him and hiding how she felt about him meant it was never acknowledged.

If they were great with your child, I think it would be a bit more complicated, but they don't seem to be.

I think I'd watch very carefully and remind your DH that his real feelings come first, even before his parents' right to a relationship with their GC.

But I think what might be more complicated is that as your child grows, your DH may become more distressed by memories of his childhood. I'd encourage him to seek professional help for that.

understand frisson. I agree. my mil was ace so I was lucky and I will bust my ass to welcome my dss partners.

P.S

I agree with Pag. They may not bother much, in the end.

The difficulty will come if your DH's desire to please them means he pushes for lots of contact with them.

If I have a boy, I'm adamant I"m going to make friends with my DIL first and then try to be a great gp!

I think that's a good thing to try and do!

It is a bit odd when they don't bother much and you hardly see them, and then you have a baby and they want to see you (the baby) loads when you feel you don't even know them....

DH even feels his parents are not that interested in him which I find sad. If they have someone visiting they want to meet up to make a big show of DD and pose for photos/play the doting GPs, but the majority of the time they don't know much about what's going on with her or ask. They only live 20 minutes away. It irks me but I just grin and bear it.

Conversely my mum knows just about every detail of DD's daily life yet she lives a plane journey away! My dad and his partner live closer but they're just as happy to see me pop in for a cuppa on my own as they are to call in and see all of us, and that was the way before DD was born so I don't feel they are only bothered with DD.

I know DH feels put out by his parents' behaviour. One day I mentioned to him the fact that when we visited their place with DD I was left sitting on my own for half an hour after DH went to look for something in the loft, and ILs came in and scooped DD up from playing on the floor with me and went off next door with her. I felt pretty surplus to requirements!

He acknowledged it was a bit thoughtless of them but also said "let's face it they couldn't have cared less if either of us had hung around so it isn't just you. I'm their son think how it makes me feel!"

Fair enough :)

I think your DH wants to show your parents that is worth something and his DC is his way of proving it - in effect saying "I'm not worthless, I am worth loving and I am valued - look what I have now", This is normal. Let him decide how much contact to have until such a time (which may never arrive) when your DC is old enough to be upset by something that their GPs do, at which point you may need to put your foot down. Fo rnow, let it go and try to build up as much of a relationship as your DH wants to have with them. For what it's worth, my MIL was (apparently anyway ) a great mum and my FIL was a a pretty poor father, but as a grandparent my FIL was great, and she can be a nightmare.

piano

Wow. This. It is a bit odd when they don't bother much and you hardly see them, and then you have a baby and they want to see you (the baby) loads when you feel you don't even know them.... DH even feels his parents are not that interested in him which I find sad. If they have someone visiting they want to meet up to make a big show of DD and pose for photos/play the doting GPs, but the majority of the time they don't know much about what's going on with her or ask.

That could honestly be my situation!!

Despite me trying to get PIL's involved, they know nothing about me really. Never ask. Show no interest in what I do for a living. How things are going. What we've been up to. I don't know them/trust them at all, but then they come out with things like (the latest corker!) ' You need to just leave DD with us for a few days on her own because she doesn't know us'

Over. My. Dead. Body!!!!

Thanks for all your response everyone. It is a relief to know I am not the only one feeling frustrated by this.

I guess you are all right about having to put my DH's feelings first. I am trying to. He says that I shouldn't 'over-think' everything. Well, that was his response when I said I was worried that he would want to start seeing lots of them. I guess that means that I should just take it as it comes.

After having spoken to my Mum I know that I should really try and chill about it all though. She said that if I carried on the way that I am doing I would make myself ill. It is so much easier to just let the resentment feelings fall away when they have left after their visit.

I also find it UTTERLY ASTONISHING that they actually don't give any value to my relationship with our ds. Honestly, it is all about their family and them. Who he looks like? What he can do? All of it is about them. And if nothing else that is rude.

And, I cannot even describe how much it rips me apart upsets me when they are kissing our baby and 'playing cat games' with him.

It has been quite therapeutic listening to your woes but if anyone has any advice on how they actually cope through gritted teeth then I would love to know.

I'd also like to know some coping strategies !

If you want to rant on a pm Mameulah, i'm happy to share and compare!

I'm supposed to take DD round next week so that she can be passed around all of the relatives she hasn't met yet.

She's right at that age where she just wants her mum.

I'm thinking of going and refusing to hand her over to anyone!

And your mum is right, it will make you ill if you let it, I know it's affected me :(

What does pfb stand for?

It means Precious First Born. It is used somewhat disparagingly by parents of older childreN on MN because they have forgotten what it's like to have a new first baby. IMO

... I mean it is sometimes used that way, insultingly.

Hmmmmm strategies, there aren't any magic words to turn toxic people into nice people, but you could try:

1.be firm - 'no he's not enjoying that, I'll take him now thanks'
2.if possible visit them rather than vice versa, then you can decide when the visit is over.
3.remember everybody's doing the best they can. I like this, my friend who's a family therapist gave it to me. It helps me to remember that MIL doesn't wake up in the morning and think 'I'm going to be a narcissistic dick today' she is genuinely only capable of that level of behaviour.

These have worked best for us since our (frighteningly similar sounding) situation with our in laws went critical a couple of years ago. And you HAVE to be on the same page as your DH...

I take the dog for a walk or busy myself with something while they're over. Not always easy as they're very "ceremonial" e.g the world must stop turning for a visit from them.

I usually make an excuse when I see MIL trying to show DD how to play with a toy "properly" or trying to make her give so-and-so a cuddle or sit on their knee when she doesn't want to. She's 24 months now you can't force affection like that - and she's way past the stage of wanting to sit still on a knee for more than a few seconds...

frisson yes we get that too re: how about you go out for a bit and leave us with DD? Why? I live here and have nowhere to go! Can we help in anyway such as taking DD out? If pianodoodle wants a break we could take DD? I'd have asked Mnet if I WBU to be irked by this but DH also says "I wish they'd stop trying to find excuses to snatch DD" or "do they need to make it so obvious they just want to take DD and that is the only kind of help they ever offer"

So I guess if I'm being pfb so is DH :)

I don't think they quite understand that firstly I enjoy spending time with daughter and rarely need a babysitter, and secondly that I don't feel they know her well enough to have her on their own.

Ooooooh, yeah 'Can you give grandad a lovely cuddle? ' who in their right mind would want to cuddle that? Grandad, being a horribly repressed unaffectionate emotionally stunted excuse for a human being, doesn't even want a cuddle. It's just you who wants it for complicated reasons of your own and DD is not going to be employed in that way.

namechanges I totally agree. And it really pisses me off annoys me because I know they were the least tactile, understanding and caring parents to my dh they could have possibly been.

I also think your 'no, he's not enjoying that' is a great phrase to have up my sleeve.

I think what your therapist friend said about 'everyone trying their best' is lovely but it just doesn't work for me. My dh has a friend who says that it is helpful to think of that person as having learning difficulties. Actually maybe it goes hand in hand with what you were saying, in that actually, these people can't do better than this.

I find it so difficult hearing them say 'oh he hasn't been to our house yet!' It makes me so want to say 'what on earth would he need to be in your house for, he has nothing to do with you!'

I guess I just don't think they have earned the right to be grandparents of our baby. And I wish they would just get lost.

I know how you feel, my DH 'parents' were/are vile creatures, won't go into too much detail..........they weren't together as he was growing up, he got placed into care at a young age but as an adult he seemed to have this need to please them, stayed in touch, visited often, invited them here etc, when DD1 was born he was besotted, after they had both visited (separately of course) and gushed over her, spoke lovingly to her, held her etc, he came upstairs, picked her up out of her moses basket, and collapsed in a heap, cradling her and just fell to pieces, "I could never give her up, never hurt her, why could they do that to me?" finally he saw the light and cut contact with M and eventually D, and I was so relieved, I hated seeing them all lovey dovey with DD as I knew he was thinking "were they ever like that with me?" But up until then, I had to support him, I wanted him to cut them off for such a long time but I just couldn't tell him as it had to be his decision. I know it's hard, carry on doing what you're doing, being supportive, and caring, good luck x

My kids have no grandparents, saying that they have a grandad is so disinterested it's untrue(only speaks to them to tell them off).

The 'Werther originals' grandad doesn't exist and it didn't in my childhood.

My kids fondly remember my stroppy characterful Mom and DHs gentle and kind Mom. Don't fret, life isn't all that bad when you don't have them visiting all the time. Once in a while, I'm sure you will have to bear.

Whilst I hear what you're saying, at the end of the day, your baby is something to do with them. If it wasn't for them, then your dh wouldn't be here, and following on from that, neither would your baby.
I didn't ever get on particularly well with my mil, but I loved my dh very much and it helped if I thought that she was partly the reason why he was the person he was.
I know it seems like a long way away, but my ds's are now nearly 13 and 16 and they visit their gran under their own steam, on their own terms, and pretty regularly - their own choice.

We lost dh some years ago, and it would've been easy for me to distance myself and the dcs from her then, but the relationship they have with her now is important to all of them, and I'm glad too that she can tell them things about her son from before he was my husband and their dad.

Just saw this thread today and it really struck a chord. I feel like this about my day's sisters, whom I shall call Aunt Sponge and Aunt Spiker.

Aunt Spiker is a toxic spiteful bitch who has done her utmost to destroy us. She was my grandparents' youngest and pet and used to getting her own way, and she used her influence to turn my grandfather against my mum and dad - he even refused to come to my wedding, his first grandchild, because he didn't want to be near them because of the things she was saying. When he died he had written my dad out of hs will, although he had reconciled a bit when my father was being treated for cancer. Aunt Spiker used to either be extremely rude, or pretend I didn't exist whenever our paths crossed. Her gaze would just slide over me as if I wasn't there, very disconcerting. Aunt Sponge just has no manners and is an ignorant pig, led by the other.

But since my grandfather died, the two aunts have reconciled to my parents. No apology, just as if the decade long feud had never happened. They started coming round for a drink at Christmas, then lunch, then tea. And I have to pass my son around to be doted on. It sticks in my craw. I hate playing fake-nice, I resent them having anything to do with my son and when they bring gifts for him I want to spit in their faces and burn them. Instead I write polite thank you cards. For my dad, who loves having his family back. I almost hate them more for being nice now, because how dare they? I could legitimately refuse to have anything to do with them while they were horrible, and now that they're not, I'm the one who is unpleasant and rude and they are our guests and our family again.

That was cathartic to write, but I could go on forever...

My dad's sisters I meant!!

Loki What you have written resonates with me.

Before we got married I did the whole 'bubbly' number to try and bring them all together. Mostly because I couldn't believe that a family could be as dysfunctional as it obviously and for my wonderful dh to have come from it.

I learned from being bubbly that I actually penalised myself because we ended up having to spend more time with them. For example, we visited them on Christmas Day. My dh barely opened his mouth. And I had a rubbish time too and missed out on being with my family all day. The Christmas before we met my dh spent it on his own and his parents were on holiday, he had no idea where, so the idea that we have to be with them when previously they didn't care seems unbelievably unfair.

Dumpylump I can understand exactly what your point of view is. It is not place to share my dh's family history on the internet. I am certain if I told you the reasons for my objection to sharing our baby with them that you would understand why it tears me apart seeing them have any kind of ownership of our baby.

Melika I have my own set of Werther's grandparents and my parents are The Werther's grandparents to our baby!

Loki I agree, 'how dare they?' Turn up here being all devoted.