Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to make myself believe in god?

999 replies

HopHopHopSkip · 25/07/2013 22:55

I have always been very logical and so despite going to a Christian primary school, having a very religious mum(though not in a pushy way) and reading the bible when I was younger(the story version Grin I was a bit of a book worm) I have never really got my head around how god could be possible.

But I really wish I had the extra "something" that some people seem to find by believing in god. I'm probably not making much sense, but I wish I could get myself to feel like there's somebody watching out, that there's something after death, that everything happens for what'd ultimately a good reason/what's meant to be so on.

AIBU to try going to church for a bit even though I don't believe in god? Or am I just being silly, is it something you can't 'make' yourself feel?

OP posts:
headinhands · 31/07/2013 21:39

I'm not happy with the suggestion that it's in-built, either it is and we all have it or it isn't.

claig · 31/07/2013 21:40

There was a programme on BBC4 just now about the 100 years war and how Joan of Arc emerged and galvanised the French forces. It wasn't through military genius that the 17 year old Joan won her victories, because she was no military genius like Napoleon. It was through the intervention of the Spirit, which gave faith and belief and certainty to the French forces and planted seeds of doubt in the English forces.

Symbols, banners, ideas and abstract spirit are mightier even than the physical sword. Faith can move mountains and it was faith that helped the French gain victories.

claig · 31/07/2013 21:45

"I'm not happy with the suggestion that it's in-built, either it is and we all have it or it isn't."

I think we all have it dormant and latent within us, but the urge to find it is greater in some than others. Some people are more musical and artistic than others, and I think that some people are more naturally spiritual than others. Many people laughat people who believe in woo, and healing by prayer and thought etc., but the people who believe in those things, I think, are just more spiritual than down-to-earth people.

HolofernesesHead · 31/07/2013 21:52

Some people's drive to find faith kicks in at certain times of life, doesn't it? I've known previously ostensibly happily non-religious people finding within themselves a hunger for religion or spirituality. I don't think it's quite as simple as saying that some people are religious and others aren't; people change, quite dramatically sometimes!

headinhands · 31/07/2013 21:53

So why is there such a distinctive geographical element to belief in a particular god? Do you think this urge for god is god given? Which god?

claig · 31/07/2013 21:54

People say miracles don't happen, but they happen every day.

www.nydailynews.com/news/national/daughter-lifts-bmw-father-crushed-beneath-car-performs-cpr-article-1.1126449

and it is faith that causes them to happen.

The daughter acted on instinct ansd in that split second she had no doubt (just as the French forces under Jaon of Arc had no doubt) and that lack of doubt and that absolute faith that what she wanted to do would happen, is what caused the miracle to happen. Faith can move mountains, but it must be absolute faith and of course humans can rarely achieve that. Faith in God is the same, it can change reality, but miracles require absolute faith and that is a blessing and not something that you can just demand and click your fingers for.

Joan of Arc was a miracle to the French and she was infused with the Spirit when France was on its knees. She was a blessing to France.

claig · 31/07/2013 21:58

"Do you think this urge for god is god given? Which god?"

There is only one God, the one true God.

But human beings cannot understand God, they can only gain a glimpse of the reality of God, and their glimpses are incomplete, and different religions view God from different angles and see different aspects, but no one can see and understand the complete God, but they all see certain truths and certain aspects of the reality that is God.

claig · 31/07/2013 22:02

Yes, the desire is God given, because I believe, as the Gnostic Christians do, that we have some of the divine spark within us and it seeks to reunite with the Divine. It is like a magnet and like attracts like and seeks out the good, the just and the true.

And art and music and philosophy and beauty are all aspects of the divine beauty that is God.

headinhands · 31/07/2013 22:45

But human beings cannot understand God, they can only gain a glimpse of the reality of God, and their glimpses are incomplete, and different religions view God from different angles and see different aspects, but no one can see and understand the complete God, but they all see certain truths and certain aspects of the reality that is God.

Why didn't/doesn't god just explain this as clearly as you have in his many religious texts like the bible, Quran etc. Why does he allow, even promote animosity between the religions.

claig · 31/07/2013 22:55

God doesn't promote animosity, it is humans' faulty understanding that leads to animosity. God has given us free will and it is up to us to find answers and ask questions.

We all go to school and have to study. We don't just get handed things on a plate. We have to work and study and learn; money does not grow on trees, there is no free lunch.

"Seek and ye shall find", but if you do not seek, then you will not find. It is up to you to take responsibility and to use your free will.

headinhands · 31/07/2013 23:10

God doesn't promote animosity, it is humans' faulty understanding that leads to animosity. God has given us free will and it is up to us to find answers and ask questions.

Didn't god know that our faulty understanding would lead to animosity?

We all go to school and have to study. We don't just get handed things on a plate. We have to work and study and learn; money does not grow on trees, there is no free lunch.

Not everyone gets to have an education.

claig · 31/07/2013 23:19

'Didn't god know that our faulty understanding would lead to animosity?'

God gaves us free will, just as parents do not control the lives of their children when they become adults.

'Not everyone gets to have an education.'

Yes, but in this country we do, because we as a society, as a community, we have fought for that right and have thought that it was important enough to make law. We create our own reality, we shape our world and we shape it based on our philosophy, our beliefs, our values, our ethics, and through history, our religious beliefs and all of these things shape our politics and society, and our society reflects those values. You may not be religious, but religion and religious people in centuries past have been instrumental in shaping how we live today.

Frustratedartist · 01/08/2013 00:23

I'm not up on the Bible to quote exactly- but I feel the part when Jesus says - my Fathers house has many rooms - could apply to all the different religions in the world.

An acknowledgement that there are different ways of experiencing God - but ultimately it's the one God.

atrcts · 01/08/2013 03:39

frustratedartist

Here is the context to the verse you quote:

John 14
New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Comforts His Disciples

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

  1. Jesus is talking
  2. To the disciples
  3. About heaven
  4. The context of 'rooms' is about there being plenty of space for everyone to be included in the place that Jesus was departing for; namely heaven. We know this because the precious chapter (13) we are told: "Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father."

It is not saying all religions lead to God. We know this because (apart from the fact religions contradict each other) 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

So there you have the context. It is not speaking of all religions being equal. It is speaking of no one comes to God except through Jesus. This fits perfectly with John 3:16: "Whosoever believes in HIM", believe meaning to trust in and reply upon, with full assurance, and not believing in anything/anyone else instead.

atrcts · 01/08/2013 03:45

Oops previous chapter, not precious.

These night feeds (combined with the dreaded phone auto-text) are getting the better of me!

Thanks for the congrats headinhands, and for the compliment earlier springytotty Wink

timeforanothernewname · 01/08/2013 07:02

Yanbu.

headinhands · 01/08/2013 08:06

This free will thing? Does god have free will?

claig · 01/08/2013 08:13

'This free will thing? Does god have free will?'

Yes

Caster8 · 01/08/2013 08:37

Course He does. You are trying to make God fit you. Doesnt work that way.

headinhands · 01/08/2013 08:38

So god could do something bad if he wanted to

Caster8 · 01/08/2013 08:38

Evidence. Doesnt make any difference. As the bible says, even if people came back from the dead and told people what Hell is like as well, wouldnt make any difference.

Caster8 · 01/08/2013 08:39

How is bad measured?

Caster8 · 01/08/2013 08:40

Or perhaps who is bad measured by? Humans

Caster8 · 01/08/2013 08:43

Can and does God kill people who have repeatedly done bad things, after having repeated been warned by God? Yes. Is that bad? Humans may think so.
Am I going to judge God? You have got to be joking me.
Do I have a healthy fear of God. You bet I do.

claig · 01/08/2013 08:47

I personally don't think that God can do bad things, because I believe that God is good. There is evil in the world, but it is not of God.