To want to make myself believe in god?

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I have always been very logical and so despite going to a Christian primary school, having a very religious mum(though not in a pushy way) and reading the bible when I was younger(the story version I was a bit of a book worm) I have never really got my head around how god could be possible.

But I really wish I had the extra "something" that some people seem to find by believing in god. I'm probably not making much sense, but I wish I could get myself to feel like there's somebody watching out, that there's something after death, that everything happens for what'd ultimately a good reason/what's meant to be so on.

AIBU to try going to church for a bit even though I don't believe in god? Or am I just being silly, is it something you can't 'make' yourself feel?

Right so you won't kidnap them because you love them. Now If they were beating up their children you wouldn't involve the authorities for the same reason? If others were being hurt by their actions you would still not prevent them doing what they wanted to because it wouldn't be loving of you to impose your will?

headinhands, which God are you talking about? Bearing in mind there are thousands of religions.

Oldandcobwebby: the only organised religion I would get involved with is the Quakers.
I have yet to meet one that is not a person of great integrity.

Head: It comes back to free will.
The man has free will.
You want Heaven on Earth and it won't happen in our lifetime.

If you knew 100% that your child was going to do something that would result in them suffering a severe injury that would leave them in constant, agonizing, pain for the rest of their lives. Would you allow them to do that? Could you call yourself a loving parent if you allowed your child to suffer a crippling injury that you could've easily prevented because you wanted them to make their own mistakes?

God is an omniscient and omnipotent according to Christianity, he can do anything, he knows everything, yet he put Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden knowing full well that they'd eat the fruit, be cast out of paradise and be forced to suffer, along with all of their descendants. He knew this was going to happen and he allowed it to happen, yet he's a loving, compassionate, god?

If you don't believe that god knew what was going to happen, or that he couldn't have prevented it from happening, then you're effectively admitting that your god is not omnipotent and not omniscient.

God knows before every single serial killer, pedophile, rapist, dictator, is born exactly what they are going to do. He knows they are going to cause the immense suffering of innocent helpless people but he allows them to do it and then he throws into a hell to burn for all eternity for something he knew they were going to before they even existed.

If we are 'shaped' by god in the womb, created by him, that means he's creating people he knows full well will cause immense suffering to others and doing nothing to stop them.

How is that loving, how is that caring?

And If god wants humans to have free will and to make choices for ourselves then what about Sodom or Gomorrah? Or Noah and the Flood? Or Hell. He gave us free will but decides to massacre us and send us to burn eternally for a finite crime when we don't do what he would like us to do.

How is telling people, 'Worship Jesus Christ as your lord and savior or you're going to burn in hell for all eternity' a choice? That's not a choice, that's putting a gun to someone's head and giving them no option but to make the choice you want.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

I refer to any all loving all knowing god.

So our free will should be honoured at all times. The authorities shouldn't prosecute rapists and imprison them? You wouldn't call the cops on your son if he was drink driving?

Maybe try Scientology, they sue anybody who says anything bad about them, so you won't have to listen to anybody point out the glaring inconsistencies and contradictions of your religion on the internet.

If you watched a man beat up a child and failed to act in anyway because you didn't want to affect the man's free will that would make you a complete c you next Tuesday no?

enpanne

headinhands, you ask inspiring questions.

They disobeyed God. That is why they were accountable.

I agree, and I have referred to God's (perceived) cuntishness directly with him. Makes for a real relationship.

I have already said I am putting in place some serious boundaries with my kids. I have on this thread made the distinction between love, unconditional or otherwise, and boundaries.

I am answering your questions, head , are you taking the trouble to consider them as you are considering the detractors on this thread? Or are you not interested in 'answers' ?

Fair enough, if so. Just clarifying.

But at the point they disobeyed him they as yet didn't know right from wrong because they hadn't eaten the fruit yet.

Another way to look at the Adam and Eve myth.

If your great-great-great-great granddad, was a criminal, would it be acceptable for me to punish you for what he did?

If not, why is it acceptable to punish Adam and Eve's descendants for what they did?

To labour the point: I have brought in my own relationship with my children to illustrate the nature of loving those you have created, the ultimate powerlessness within that relationship due to love, the lot of the parent. If I didn't love them I would control them. That could be for my benefit - so they would be what I want them to be. I couldn't then expect them to love me because love doesn't spring from fear - and, so far, love wouldn't have made an appearance.

the situation with my kids is serious. Thankfully, not so serious that one of them has raped someone, or beaten a child. If they did, I would refer it to the relevant authorities and if I had evidence I would testify in court against them. If it was appropriate for them to receive a custodial sentence I would support that. I would also support them in prison without condoning what they had done. It would hurt. But I'd do it.

Not everything in our lives is decided in advance of us being born, so God doesn't know in advance what choices we will make in life.
That is our free will.

NormaL Well, Adam and Eve's descendents haven't exactly been loving and caring for the world and everyone in it have they?

Also we have many lives, we have many chances to get it right.

We're not being punished - it is a consequence. For which God has extravagantly made a way out.

How many of us have given up our jobs and livelihood to plough all we have into funding eg domestic abuse charities/work to fund research into abuse against vulnerable members of society eg children. No? You haven't done that? ok. But don't blame God. We could have done it, we didn't. We are too busy furnishing our lives and adding frills. NOthing wrong with that at all - but don't then blame God for 'not doing something' when we are resoundingly unprepared to do something ourselves.

I have come to the conclusion that maybe the role of Faith is when it becomes futile to try and rationalise things into simpistic human terms, because it will never stack up logically. Some things will always be a mystery, inexplicable, so expalining it away is pointless

The old chestnut "why did God allow my DC to get ill?" "How can there be a God who allows an earthquake to kill thousands of people?, "why did I have to be born into a life of poverty, why me??" are not helpful. There is no value in blaming stuff on the existence of that horrible God who claims to be one thing, but does something else.

Faith is about acceptance, saying that whatever life flings at us is what it is. Blaming is not going to sort it out, and yes you can talk yourself out of believing, very easily indeed.

But logically daisy if all the evidence suggests there is no god then that's what you have to come to terms with. It seems intellectually dishonest to say 'I just won't think about that too much or assume It's not supposed to make sense to me' in order to continue with your belief.

Being community minded and giving up time and effort to improve the lives of those less fortunate is good and something it would be great I we could all do our bit but I'm not all powerful and all knowing and I didn't start this world off knowing what would happen so your point is moot in the extreme.

Agree with TimeOfChange. We have choices.

So you don't think god knows what will happen? He didn't know it would go pear shaped in Eden? Still doesn't absolve his responsibility to prevent suffering. If I took my lo to toddler group and he went around smacking all the other kids would it be fair if I sat and did nothing because hey, how was I supposed to know he was going to hurt them and I'm not going to stop him because he has free will.

Springy if you witnessed your child attacking another child would you stop them? Why would you stop them? Why wouldn't god stop them?

I don't know why everyone always goes on about Quakers when dissing Christianity, last time I looked they are Christians! I don't believe a lot of the things supposedly tenets of Christianity as written about on this thread but I still think of myself as a Christian. There are many flavours.

As for blaming god no, I'm not, I'm illustrating the thought process I went through to see how illogical an all loving god is and that there isn't one as far as I can reasonably tell when I'm honest with myself.

Headinhands, given that you do not believe in god and therefore there is no deity to step in, how do you explain man's lack of action? After all we actually do know that acts of unspeakable cruelty are happening daily and still we do not do what is needed to prevent them.