to think my law student DS doesn't have a hope in hell of getting a paid placement with a law firm

[Aliceandtherabbit]

DS is doing a 4 year law degree - the third year is meant to be spent in a paid placement with a law firm which he has to find himself. We're in Birmingham.

AIBU to think he has no chance of getting a paid placement for a year when we don't have any contacts in the law world.

I know three people (including 2 family members) who've recently got paid training contracts. Only one of them (the none family one) could be said to have legal contacts, so to speak. None of the did this year long placement you've mentioned though? I'm confused!

My DD did a Law Degree (after an English Literature one), and she followed it with the LPC. She had no requirement to do a professional placement, but, in her summer holiday between the Law Degree and the LPC she volunteered at solicitor's practices in our city. She was quite persistent with sending in CV's and letters and following up with phone calls, and I think she found places for around 6/7of the weeks.

She was offered a full time training contract with one of those companies, and was kept on permanently after the 2 year training period.

Not heard of this type of degree for law, but other sectors do the year in employment thing and the uni have a list of contacts that you then apply to, ie organisations that have agreed to this sort if thing, I am sure there will be assistance at uni.
I am a barrister, I had no contacts in law, was first to go to uni etc, but I pulled my finger out and worked really hard and wrote letter after letter and sent CV after CV to get experience. Don't be defeatist, your son will need encouragement to get his foot in the door.
Apologies if typos, on iPhone.

Surely if it's part of his course, his tutors will have lots of advice about how to go about finding a placement, even if your DS has to do the emailing legwork. What would they do if he DIDN'T find a place? What year is he in now?

The year in industry whether that be law, accounting, engineering whatever is becoming more and more common as it gives the student some work experience when they leave. I'm lucky that my daughters uni does provide the contacts and help to get places but the firms that everyone wants can pick and choose the best.

Your ds needs to speak to the uni, lecturers etc to see what help they can provide even if its just suggestions of who does take placement students.

I did a course like this. At the end of the first year I had a six month placement and at the end of the second academic year I had a nine month placement.

First placement was in a very well known West End divorce practice. Unfortunately I didn't get to do any menial work there. Instead I did a mix of residential conveyancing, wills, probate for government ministers, lords and other wealthy people. I did some family work too but found that all a bit depressing. One of the partners I worked for wouldn't allow me to go to court to hear a contested divorce case as the allegations were awful. Didn't matter as I read it on the front page of the tabloids the next day

Second placement was in a West End firm specialising in corporate work and commercial conveyancing. I acted for a property company that built Meadowhall shopping centre in Sheffield (I did the conveyancing for buying up the individual sites) plus other commercial and corporate work. Some of my course got placements in magic circle firms.

At the end of both those placements I knew that I never wanted to do private client work or mergers and acquisitions or conveyancing. It meant that when I applied for a training contract I targetted the firms I was interested in. I got lots of offers and my experience was valued.

My course had a tutor that sorted out placements. No one I knew had any contacts to arrange this through family, friends etc. I got paid for both placements too.

When I worked at a large City firm we didn't have any of these sandwich placement positions for law students either, paid or unpaid. We did summer vac schemes for law students between their 2nd and 3rd years, and for non-law students the summer after they graduated, but that's it.

In my trainee intake, I think I and one other girl were the only people who had any contacts or connection to law at all. Everyone else but me had done vac schemes but you get those by applying on the law firm website, not through contacts.

I didn't even know about conversion courses and training contracts (my dad's a lawyer but non-UK so the system is totally different). I found out about them at the uni careers service, in one of those bog-standard "so you want to be a lawyer" type flyers. It was shocking how underused that place was. The only reason I was there myself is because I had a part time beer money filing job and I don't think I ever saw another student in there.

That's definitely the place for your DS to start, along with his tutors and lecturers.

Good luck. I got a 2.1 law degree and a commendation for the LPC and couldn't even get a training contract in our local high street firm. I am now paying £300 a month for ten years to pay for my LPC, I really wouldn't do the LPC unless he has a training contract guaranteed!

YABU. If this is a course his university routinely offers, they will have a number of contacts at firms which offer this type of placement (but as a solicitor in a City firm myself I'm another person who has never heard of a firm offering a year's paid placement as opposed to 2-3 week vacation schemes). There is certainly still some nepotism in the city but it doesn't get people jobs - they might have a better chance of getting a week's ad hoc work experience or an interview but it stops there.

I imagine that most firms would value a prospective trainee more highly if they've done a year in industry rather than a year's law firm admin. I wonder whether this is an option for your DS?

I'm a solicitor and I've never heard of any law student doing a paid placement. We offer week long work experience placements from Jun-Sept but they are obv unpaid. His best bet might be to look for a paralegal job.

Encourage him to cast his net. Birmingham City Council employs lawyers. take a look here

There are various charities who need peole with legal interest / experience e.g. Shelter, CAB. There are some large law firms some already mentioned.

does he have a special interest? For example Benussi & co. specialise in family law. Anthony Collins on the other hand cover a wide range of matters.

His university should help him find somewhere but he needs to be proactive getting his CV out there. Remember though unless his university insist it does not necessarily need to be a law firm there are other ways of getting experience

Also, I am curious. If this is part of the course then what happens to uni fees for that year - are they waived?

YABU - if you think like that OP then you've closed off all possibilities before he's even tried...

My course was 4 years. Academic fees were paid for three years as the 15 m

Not sure where the rest of my post went.

No fees payable when on placement so only three years worth of fees.

If I were you I would ignore those posting on here who've never heard of these courses and concentrate your energies in getting your ds to speak to his course tutor in charge of sorting out placements. Ours tended to be arranged six months in advance and we had to attend interviews at prospective firms.

the university should be helping out I think.

I work for a local authority and we take sandwich year students on placements. It has been unpaid for the last few years sadly although I think we have persuaded them to change that policy. I would definitely recommend he gets in touch with nearby local authorities to see if they do any such schemes. Our unpaid placement students tended to have a shop/ bar type job as well, hard work but then one then made such a good impression she was offered a training contract with us and has now qualified as a solicitor!

he would do well to target firms himself and be proactive, just make sure he has a very good cv and covering letter and targets each firm individually (i.e. a bespoke covering letter for each firm showing he understands the type of firm they are / work they do). I am sure the careers department can help with this.

I did a lot of pro bono work at law school and that definitely helps too.

should say the local university had linked up with us, to place their students with us. I would be surprised and disappointed if every university offering sandwich degrees didn't have similar structures in place.

I'm a partner in a decent sized practice and have to say I've never heard of this type of degree. I think what he could do for a year is pretty limited but he might be lucky and be able to work as support on a big case or something. Can't give any tips but if he gets a placement and is there for some time, and shines, and likes the firm, he would stand in good stead for a training contract. We quite often offer them to paralegals who have been with us and impressed. I do a lot of trainee interviewing and I do try to look beyond the academics ( but not too far). . I want trainees and future lawyers who are bright but have great common sense, who are easy to get on with and will be ok with clients, and who have something interesting about them ( I really don't like working with boring people!).

I'm also a senior lawyer and work in the midlands.

Can he do the placement unpaid? Tbh I would say that is his best bet. Otherwise he will be competing with the hundreds of LPC students out there who can't find a training contract for love nor money. It seems like a bit of an unrealistic expectation for a law student who has not even completed his degree, although I know these courses are common for business management students (I did one). Alternatively I would agree with others and say drop that year and go straight to the final year, its bound to be an option, it certainly was on my course (although that was 20 years ago!)

I would also agree that he is unlikely to be given any legal work to do. He simply won't have the skills and law firms are under extreme pressure nowadays and are highly unlikely to have time to train him. maybe for a week or fortnight long placement but not for a year.

Plus won't his mates all have left/be enjoying their final year when he's off franking post and lugging boxes of documents down to be archived. Explore the straight degree route.

Sorry hit submit too soon. Clearly my computer skills need work!

I head up resourcing for an international law firm. Courses like the one your son is doing are increasing common. Magic circle firms will insist on high UCAS points and a 1st class degree from a Russell group university. Firms outside of the magic circle are more flexible. Most firms now use on-line application systems that score a candidates application based on a set of pre-determined criteria. High on the point scoring is work experience, hence why these types of degree courses are becoming more popular. Most students try to do a work placement, vac scheme or work as a paralegal before or during their studies. This work is junior, but that doesn't necessarily mean photocopying. Large firms are trying very hard to move away from these old style practices. As one of the posts mentions, there has been a move away from just recruiting client and Partner contacts. This is seen as very bad practice and potentially damaging to a Firms reputation.

Moving into law is competitive and is hard work, however this is no different to any other well paid job. If it was easy everyone would be a well paid lawyer. The work that lawyers do can be intellectually challenging, therefore it is no surprise that Firms will choose those with high academic grades. At this point in a students career, this is one of the only ways that they can assess intellectual capability (I know it can be argued that it can be tested in different ways, but academics are tried and tested).

I would suggest a Google search of local firms and a good read of their websites. Most Firms are very transparent about what they can offer students. I would also suggest he joins some legal Linkedin groups and looks on BraveNewTalent. Both of these will help with his knowledge building and networking. If he hasn't already he should also become an active member of his law society and do some volunteer work at the local citizens advice service.

Not sure connections that important although good a levels and good university grades and interesting cv v important. Law firms often taken on paralegals. Need to write to every law firm in area with good covering letter.