To think that no cuts are ever going to be acceptable

[loveisagirlnameddaisy]

Not sure if this has been done, I'm not on here every day. But all the news stories since the Coalition govt came to power about unpopular cuts gets me thinking... if I were Dave for a day, what would I do? I hear about cuts to local services impacting vulnerable members of society which really upset me, but then others say that the arts/culture cuts are bad for other reasons. Assuming there have to be cuts (and I'm not saying there does), what would you cut and why? It seems like an almost impossible task, whoever is in power.

(Not clear on Labour's latest viewpoint - they initially appeared to be behind more investment, not less, but didn't Ed suggest recently that there would have to be cuts?)

So what about those people on minimum wage who earn £12k a year? How is a family supposed to live on that without a top up?

As An NHS employee from my lowley position I can see the people in charge of the money clearly have no business sense for example I worked on a ward they closed it down to move it downstairs [long stay ward little access to fresh air]. In to what was a day hospital having spent god knows how much making former day hospital habitable[male ward long term dementia] they also closed the rehab ward down to move the female ward long term dementia over from a different sight several miles, away spending god knows how much to make former rehab ward habitable exactly 5 years later they close both male and female wards down to convert long term male ward into mixed sex ward again spending god knows how much closing the long term female dementia ward for good . Six months later they are talking about reopening the long term female ward back up for the old and frail to my mind they have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on a whim its not cuts they want but people with some business sense . Also although I work in a mental health trust its based within the grounds of a generel hospital [my part anyway] the general hospital are millions in deficit but weeks after announcing this they build a huge marquee in the grounds giving cake and pens away to the general public [when announcing in the local paper just a few weeks earlier they only had enough money in the coffers to pay there employees for the next few months ]er why?

The 'get all the tax avoiders' argument is flawed.

Tax avoidance is legal. Tax evasion is illegal.

So if I structure my tax affairs to minimise tax, that's legal and common sense. Sticking your savings in an ISA is tax avoidance.

And just because HMRC deem to owe money doesn't mean you do! Vodafone probably would have won their last spat with the taxman if it had gone to court. Those in the know think Vodafone blinked too quick and gave up too much tax.

Also there is a huge lack of understanding about how taxes work. There was all that kerfuffle earlier about how Vodafone weren't paying any corporation tax this year. But the main reason for that was because they'd spent billions buying 3G license from the government.

And don't forget the whole Amazon thing. Those nasty tax dodgers. Except they are working exactly how the EU is supposed to operate. Single market, single HQ. They unsurprisingly chose Luxembourg as their HQ given the pittance they are taxed there.

In short you can close some gaps but at the end of the day cuts are still necessary. And cuts are fine until they affect you.

This is why I said change the laws and close the loopholes, niceguy.

Tax avoidance should not be allowed.

Benefit fraud is a tiny percentage compared to tax evasion and wouldn't solve any problems. Not that that makes it right, of course.

Interesting answers, thanks everyone.

IMO there are too many 'chiefs' in the state sector and they often do not really see beyond their own arses. Have said this before but I worked in a council office where there was a really big meeting organised, think
Departmental heads etc and Councillors who had a meeting, in a high end local hotel with refreshments, to discuss 'who should have a telephone directory'. Seriously, the new directory had come and they had to have a meeting as to who was 'senior' enough to have their own directory.
I was issued with a warning for 'attitude' when I suggested that they just place one under the telephone in each office !!

My DH has been requested to a 'site meeting' with 7 council members so
that they can discuss the replacement of a gate. They want a metal version of the old wooden one, just the same as we have made before at a different area authority.(where they sent 1 person to do the same as 7)so they know what they are getting and what it should cost - He knows where it is and offered to go and measure it up and give them the price but NO - it needs him and 7 other people to go and look !!!

Tee2072, you don't know what you are talking about. All tax avoidance is, is not paying any more tax than you legally have to. You cannot make that illegal.

"Close all the loopholes" sounds great until you actually realise what it would mean.

There is no perfect solution to it. All the government can do is collect as much tax as they can and spend it as wisely as they can.

Yeah, wisely. Like on Trident.

You might not think Trident is a wise thing to have but plenty of people do.

Oh okay Tabitha. I know nothing. You're right.

Then everyone should stop being incredulous and outraged that companies such as Amazon pay no tax in the UK even though their profits are enormous. After all, they aren't breaking any laws to do it...

There is a lot more political will to deal with benefit fraud than tax evasion.

One way would be to take on more staff at HMRC instead of getting rid of staff. They bring in more revenue than they cost.

How much profit do amazon make in the UK, Tee?

£74m on which they paid no tax.

Sorry, typo, that should say "nearly no" not "no"

when did greed become so acceptable, that's what I would like to know

Around 1982, Owllady.

How do they pay no tax, and how would you make them pay tax? What loophole would you close?

Tax evasion is part of British culture. To say it started in 1982 is utter rubbish.

Tax avoidance tactics:
Locating factories, service and distribution hubs and regional HQs in low-tax jurisdictions
Starbucks, for example, sources its UK coffee from a wholesale trading subsidiary in Switzerland
And Google operates in Bermuda and Ireland
Transfer pricing is when a division of a multinational in one country charges a division in another country for a product or a service
This means artificially high charges can be levied internally, to siphon money from a high-tax country to a low-tax one

Why charge tax on profits when it's becoming clear that business 'expenses' are the biggest part of the avoidance debacle? Charge upfront on turnover unless a proper claim for legitimate expenses (ie employee pension contributions) can be made?

It is part of British culture, really? So Mark who work at Aldi knows to put his wages into an offshore account does he?

Tell you what, Tabitha, what would you do?

Tee the trouble is by closing one loophole you end up creating more. Have you ever seen our tax law - it's in the most enormous books (2 when I last looked about 10 years ago), written in tiny print on practically tracing paper.

And as Tabitha says who pays more tax than they legally owe - I used to be outraged at Amazon etc until DH pointed out to me I structure my tax affairs carefully to minimize my tax, and how was that different?

What they need to do is go back to basics, but can you imagine completely redesigning the tax laws - I should think it would be virtually impossible.

OP - I agree cuts are an impossible task - you can never please all of the people all of the time, and I think most of the time we hear from very vocal minorities rather than the normal man on the street.

I know we are talking about corporate tax btw, but personal tax has been mentioned. Those on PAYE generally cannot and do not avoid tax

No, but Mark at Aldi will pay cash to tradesman to get a discount.

Look at the UK's most popular sitcom. Only Fools and Horses. Who's the hero, Del Boy Trotter, a wheeler dealer tax avoider. The theme tune goes "No income tax, no VAT, no money back no guarantee".

Another popular sitcom of yesteryear, Shelley. "Starred Hywel Bennett as James Shelley, a sardonic 28-year-old anti-establishment postgraduate and career income tax dodger." And this guy was a Guardian reading leftie!

Like it or not, our culture glorifies those who straddle the line of the law when it comes to tax affairs.