AIBU or is he? Money related

[tak1ngchances]

I am really upset this morning and I genuinely don't know if I am being unreasonable or DH is.

We both work in quite well-paid jobs. However, we are paying off debts (extension to the house) and have a car loan. So we don't have a huge amount of disposable income every month. We are also going to have to go for fertility treatment later this year which will be very expensive. I am saving like mad for that and trying to safeguard cash.

DH has wanted a new watch for ages. He has his heart totally set on a Rolex. A few months ago he found a second-hand one that he really wanted and asked me what I thought. I said, I think we should pay off our debts first and then you could save for the watch and buy it in a year or so. He agreed that was v sensible and was grateful for the advice.

He has had a pay rise recently and so last night came into the bedroom and said "I want you to be supportive, I have found the perfect watch and I am going to buy it". I said, right - but I thought you agreed to pay off the debts on the extension first. He said, yes but I can do that and buy the watch (didn't explain how), and there is never a good time to spend that kind of money, I have worked really hard for 9 years and I have always wanted a nice watch.
I said yes I know, but we have expensive fertility treatment coming up and only last week you said we couldn't afford a holiday this year. So I am not sure how you can now afford the watch, and I am not sure it's the best use of money right now. Can you not wait a bit to buy it?

He shouted at me, said he was shaking with rage and how DARE I tell him how to spend the money he earns. He said it is HIS money, and he will never discuss finances with me again if I am going to try and control how he spends it. And he wanted me to be happy for him and now I have ruined the whole thing.
He slept in a different bedroom and is not talking to me today.

I can't really think straight. In a way, he is right - he can spend his money on whatever he likes and maybe it is not my my place to try and influence it. But at the same time, when it is such a big sum of money that it could impact on big things like affording fertility treatment, I think it is a joint decision? What do you all think, what should I do??

[Beastofburden]

Sounds like someone who is feeling trapped by very big, scary grown up commitments (extension, fertility treatment) and wants to feel that he still has some of the "fun" that he used to get out of his salary. It's quite a common reaction with DH/Ps once kids come along and take up all the money.

From your POV, a bigger house and fertility treatment are all part of what you really, really want- children and a family life. He would not be unusual if he wanted that a bit less than you do, however much he will love the baby once it is there.

The frustration he feels is focussed onto this particular watch because it symbolises everything about his "own" life that he has given up to support your "joint" life. The watch itself seems like a total waste of money to me, but then I dont care about that kind of stuff. TBH you are on shaky ground if you were prepared to have a holiday this year. That is also expensive and money that doesn;t need to be spent.

I would suggest you say that you entirely support the idea of watch rather than holidays for the next year or so, and you were just scared it would delay fertility treatment because age is such a big deal with that.

Perhaps you need a clearer financial plan, that has space for debt repayment alongside "fun money" and a target for repayment that isn't so brutal on both of you.

[Andro]

make it clear that shouting and sulking are not acceptable. But how?

Very, very calmly! How did it make you feel? Disrespected? Hurt? Insecure (because he was not willing to consider the family's financial security/existing plan for fertility treatment)?

Think about that and then explain what he made you feel and why, but make sure you keep your cool.

[LIZS]

Do you normally share priorities over finances . Who normally initiates the expenditure ? Could it be that he perceives the extension and fertility treatment as primarily for your benefit and this is his turn? However I would be questioning if a baby is really what you should consider right now, sorry.

[Oscalito]

I can sort of relate to this as my DH just bought a car we can't really afford and it also cost a fortune in stamp duty and takes premium fuel etc. We're meant to be saving for a house...

However it makes him so happy and life is short. He's agreed to take more lunches from home to make up for the extra fuel and tbh we needed a new car anyway and only drive one between us so I just thought, let it go.

I would say get the watch if it means that much, but can we please make a commitment to save for fertility treatment and make cutbacks elsewhere. And agree that the yelling etc isn't really on, but we all have bad days.

good luck with the fertility treatment.

[Beastofburden]

@Apile- I can see why you would say that a holiday is for both partners. But if one partner isn't fussed about going on holiday, and is only going to please to the other one, that doesn't quite work out. It can be incredibly annoying to be told you can't have, eg new speakers but you ought to be grateful for going on a holiday that you don't want, and are only doing to please DH/P. especially if you feel that the new speakers would last years while the holiday is over in a fortnight.

Not that I am bitter at all, of course

[EvieanneVolvic]

I think your plan is very sound Chances (esp the bit about budgeting for the watch in your long term plan). But (and I really appreciate how this may rankle) I think taking a stance on not apologising whilst expecting him to apologise, although totally understandable, is the language of government negotiations rather than a recipe for a happy marriage.


And if you 'apologise' for having come over as a bit of a harridan (not syaing you did, but that's how he pereceives it!) then you are far more likely to get an apology from him.

[cathpip]

The thing is, you are not denying him this watch, just asking him to wait a little bit longer. It sounds like he went into this "chat" defensively,even though it is his money, he knew full well what you would say so threw a better tantrum than my 2 year old. He knows what his money should be going towards, but he clearly feels that he has waited long enough. For keeping the peace I would just let him buy it and look supportive and give all the " oh it is a nice watch" spiel, there are times to pick battles and as a pp has said think of the brownie points. ( still is a selfish twat though:) )

[tak1ngchances]

OK. I have written him a nice extremely calm email and suggested the financial goals discussion. I will apologise for being fish wifey.
Let's see what happens. I will now have a nice cup of tea and biccie. Feel much better.

What would we do without Mumsnet!!!!

[LessMissAbs]

DH has wanted a new watch for ages. He has his heart totally set on a Rolex. A few months ago he found a second-hand one that he really wanted and asked me what I thought. I said, I think we should pay off our debts first and then you could save for the watch and buy it in a year or so. He agreed that was v sensible and was grateful for the advice

Perhaps his outburst of rage is more to do with you patronising him than the actual watch issue? "Grateful for the advice" - do you think he doesn't have a brain of his own to think with or something that he couldn't have come up with that idea himself?

I suspect he is quite stressed, works hard, and just wants a little treat that will make him feel better. A watch seems fairly innocuous. If you are going to have children then it might be his last chance. Yes, your advice is probably correct, in that it would be better to spend no money on anything at all ever, except the essentials. Do you do that?

[EvieanneVolvic]

Re your last post Chances: I hope he realises how luck he is to be married to you!

[whatsthatcomingoverthehill]

To me it sounds a bit on both sides. Yes he has overreacted, but it sounds like you were a bit dismissive when he broached the subject. e.g. it might be a really good deal, so worth spending the money now, when in a years time there's no guarantee one would be available. It seems like this is a situation where you don't see eye to eye but neither of you is right or wrong, just have different viewpoints on how to work your finances which is very common.

So, he shouldn't go off in a sulk, but you shouldn't be dismissive of what he was wanting to do.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

I see both sides - he works hard and wanted something special - you see it as a waste of money and could go towards other stuff ie loans and fertitily treatment

Maybe work out a budget and that money goes towards paying things off but also make sure you enjoy and buy something nice sometimes

my oh has a watch fetish but thankfully happy with fake as has Rolex and Gucci and think 7 other watches - and they are fab imitations

I have one watch - as long as tells the time I'm happy :)

We share bills etc but also have separate money and I think that's important in a relationship - it's nice to have money that you can treat yourself

I also agree that life is too short and why wait a year when could get the watch now and enjoy it

[TalkativeJim]

Please don't apologise for assuming that you could raise concerns you have, like a normal person, having a normal discussion with one's reasonable and polite husband. That is not being 'fishwifey' (which just sounds like a nice shorthand to make someone who objects to something automatically unreasonable - also see the tactical 'I want you to be supportive...')

Do ask for an apology, however, for your husband shouting you down like a nasty unreasonable bully... and then having the cheek to say he's not going to discuss finances with you again.

The reply to that is - Well, you weren't discussing. You were tantrumming.

Disclaimer: I can't really get past the shallow stupidity of someone who is stamping their feet for a rolex watch (!!) when they're facing fertility treatment. Simply wouldn't be my choice of partner. So maybe I'm not the best person to comment!

[Andro]

Perhaps his outburst of rage is more to do with you patronising him than the actual watch issue? "Grateful for the advice" - do you think he doesn't have a brain of his own to think with or something that he couldn't have come up with that idea himself?

He spoke to her about it (months ago), she gave an opinion and suggestion for how everything could be accomplished, he thanked her (that is an expression of gratitude!) - not patronising at all, just sensible and respectful communication between two adults.

[Wibblypiglikesbananas]

Agree with Talkative - it doesn't sound like you do have shared financial goals if his priority is a statement watch whilst yours is clearing debt and fertility treatment. Out of interest, how much is the watch? Do you have access to a similar amount of money for 'treats' for yourself? How do you split finances generally?

And to take it a step further - a Rolex and kids? Paint and water splashes, exploding nappies, perhaps not having the money to go out anywhere to wear it - seems pretty short sighted to me. I've long since given up on decent clothes/sunglasses etc since DD arrived.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

He should not have got angry but neither should you tell him what he can spend his payrise on. You have separate finances, as long as he is meeting the bills and paying the debt off then he should be allowed some say in what he spends his own disposible income on.

Both the fertility treatment and the watch are extras from your budget, both of a completely different nature but both costly. Perhaps he feels that you get what you want but he doesnt. You need to sit down and agree common goals, not just your own wish list.

[BridgetBidet]

I think YABU to be honest. I can understand it would be frustrating for him to work really hard and not feel like he can have one thing he's been desperate for because you have decided otherwise. It does sound like you're dictating to him to be honest.

And I would bet my right arm that if this was reversed and it was a woman saying her husband was dictating what her earnings should be spent on everybody would say the one doing the dictating WBU.

[Goldmandra]

However I would be questioning if a baby is really what you should consider right now, sorry.

Me too.

In fact, I'm wondering if this is an oblique way of him letting the OP know that he isn't ready to have children.

OP, if he really considers a watch to be more important than fertility treatment and is going to shout and stamp his feet when you suggest being more responsible with money he may need to do some growing up before he becomes a father.

I wouldn't want to be trying to put a baby's needs before his at the moment.

I know this is only a snapshot of your relationship but alarm bells started ringing for me when you said you will apologise for being fish-wifey. If he really makes you feel that guilty about expressing a reasonable, mature opinion there's a problem.

Why did he ask you to be supportive? You ask someone to be supportive when you need help to get through something difficult. What he meant was that he knew you wouldn't approve and would you please keep that opinion to yourself and pretend to agree.

I would worry about anyone who told me to agree with him, then asked my opinion. That is very controlling.

[hermioneweasley]

Do not have a venue with this manchild. How will hr support you while on mat leave if he regards money as "his"?

It is completely irresponsible to sirens a big chunk of money while you are paying off (which are costing interest)

[SelectAUserName]

I don't think either of you ABU - well, he was a bit with his shouty reaction but hopefully you're working through that together so he knows he was a bit of a nob there.

This is obviously something that is important to him. It's not particularly helpful for people on here to say he IBU in wanting a certain type of watch just because they don't have the same priorities.

It doesn't sound as though he is an arse with money generally, and he has waited until getting a pay rise before raising the subject again, so under those circumstances I'd be inclined to agree that he should spend some of his hard-earned wages on something that means a lot to him even if I didn't entirely "get" it myself. I'd make sure he added it to the household insurance as it would be intensely annoying if something happened to it!

I know how easy it is to feel ground down when you feel as though you're just working to pay bills, and although I can see you have other important outgoings, it doesn't sound as though it's 'buy the watch or eat this month', which would be irresponsible.

[BridgetBidet]

I don't agree with that Goldmandra. Having been through a lot of fertility treatment myself I know how all consuming it can be for a woman. It's often difficult for a man to cope with as everything (including him) comes a long way down the list from fertility treatment. And this isn't necessarily for a few months, it can be years, and years. It doesn't just put a strain on the woman undergoing it, it puts an strain on the partner and the whole relationship.

And I have to say I can understand why he might feel like this. In all likelihood he will have got used to having sex on a timetable and for a purpose rather than pleasure. Being poked and prodded and having to sit in a poky hospital room with a cup and some dirty mags. It can reduce you to feeling little more than a science experiment or breeding mare at times. And there is absolutely no guarantee that at the end of it you will have any more than empty pockets.

I really can understand the frustration with an entire life being on hold over this. I don't think it doesn't mean that he isn't ready or doesn't want a baby. I just think it means that he doesn't want to put his life totally on hold waiting for something which may never happen.

[Glittertwins]

Fertility treatment is a huge gamble and a lot of money for no guaranteed success. It's no secret that men and women can feel very differently about this, just go to any infertility webforum for a start.

I don't agree with the shouting and control that the OP's DH has come out with but maybe he has different priorities and feels like he is being pushed into something he isn't 100% comfortable with and this is his way of taking some control back.

Common ground needs to be found and a quiet, calm discussion about where you see yourselves needs to be had.

(Having children does not exclude anyone from having expensive wathes, ours have stood up to twins with no child related mishaps).

[NinaHeart]

I don't know what the answer is here but I am sure I would feel the same way you do in the same situation, so YANBU.

[WorrySighWorrySigh]

YANBU but dont be surprised to find out he has already bought the watch. His temper tantrum extreme reaction sounds like guilt plus disappointment plus loss of face for having spent money impulsively on something so frivolous and therefore having been a bit of a prat.

[jackstini]

With hindsight, the first thing you should have asked was 'how much is it and how long will it take for your pay rise to cover it'

Once you know what that is, you can discuss.

I wonder if you saw it as a threat to IVF and your heart led your immediate reaction.

He probably saw it as being really excited his pay rise was enabling a treat he had wanted for ages and you p'd on his parade good and proper. (and agree with another poster - he may have already bought it)

However, to say he was shaking with rage is a bit weird.
Do you have a general agreement on how you spend joint money?

Let us know how the email goes!