AIBU or is he? Money related

[tak1ngchances]

I am really upset this morning and I genuinely don't know if I am being unreasonable or DH is.

We both work in quite well-paid jobs. However, we are paying off debts (extension to the house) and have a car loan. So we don't have a huge amount of disposable income every month. We are also going to have to go for fertility treatment later this year which will be very expensive. I am saving like mad for that and trying to safeguard cash.

DH has wanted a new watch for ages. He has his heart totally set on a Rolex. A few months ago he found a second-hand one that he really wanted and asked me what I thought. I said, I think we should pay off our debts first and then you could save for the watch and buy it in a year or so. He agreed that was v sensible and was grateful for the advice.

He has had a pay rise recently and so last night came into the bedroom and said "I want you to be supportive, I have found the perfect watch and I am going to buy it". I said, right - but I thought you agreed to pay off the debts on the extension first. He said, yes but I can do that and buy the watch (didn't explain how), and there is never a good time to spend that kind of money, I have worked really hard for 9 years and I have always wanted a nice watch.
I said yes I know, but we have expensive fertility treatment coming up and only last week you said we couldn't afford a holiday this year. So I am not sure how you can now afford the watch, and I am not sure it's the best use of money right now. Can you not wait a bit to buy it?

He shouted at me, said he was shaking with rage and how DARE I tell him how to spend the money he earns. He said it is HIS money, and he will never discuss finances with me again if I am going to try and control how he spends it. And he wanted me to be happy for him and now I have ruined the whole thing.
He slept in a different bedroom and is not talking to me today.

I can't really think straight. In a way, he is right - he can spend his money on whatever he likes and maybe it is not my my place to try and influence it. But at the same time, when it is such a big sum of money that it could impact on big things like affording fertility treatment, I think it is a joint decision? What do you all think, what should I do??

[Kleinzeit]

My answer to this depends on what your DH is usually like. It sounds as if he is usually quite careful with money, he?s not constantly spending on himself or extravagant or wasting money? And apart from this he makes big decisions about spending with you, and respects your judgments?

If he buys the watch, do you think he will still be looking at it fondly five years from now, or do you think he will soon get fed up and want some other fancy trinket?

If the answer to the first questions is yes, and if he?s really going to treasure the watch, then although he?s not being reasonable he?s being ? well ? understandable. The watch may have a symbolic value to him, something to do with being successful in life, as well as being a beautiful thing in itself.

He asked you to be supportive ? that doesn?t have to mean saying ?yes? immediately, it could mean admitting you don?t really understand what the watch means to him, but at least acknowledging how important it is to him and giving it serious thought. So maybe he got so angry because it meant a lot to him and you dismissed him out of hand.

[expatinscotland]

And you want to have a child with this person?

[LondonMan]

I am shock at fertility treatment being seen as an expensive indulgence for the woman. She may not be the infertile one!

I think the issue is who wants a baby more, it's irrelevant where the fertility money is spent.

[nkf]

If you've wanted one for years and you've got the money.

[nkf]

I think somewhere in this all one big pot theory, there has to be some flexibility for purchases seen as desirable by one person and daft by another. My ex and I mishandled finances (one reason why we're not together) but I think if I were to do it again, I would look at one big pot plus pocket money. It is bloody annoying to be told that you can't have a watch if you've wanted one for years. And the debt is being paid back and the fertility money is being saved. And, I know, it's not just a watch and some of you found a Rolex for 20p but there has to be some leeway for nonsense purchases. Unless you are really struggling. But the couple here are not really struggling.

[Goldmandra]

Nobody should be handing over any money.

This is about joint ownership.

It is their money, their extension, their holiday, their fertility treatment and their Rolex watch.

They are married and jointly own everything. Therefore the financial decisions should be made together.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

I agree bridgit, it seems unless the man hands over every penny to the woman then she should LTB but a woman is encouraged to keep her earnings and have a secret savings stash should she ever need it. The double standards are rife.

Why assume that the DH will automatically become the only earner when the OP has a child, will it render her incapable of working? Deciding to quit work and expecting another adult to fund that choice has to be something both partners want. Given the DH doesnt have much say in money matters now he's very unlikely to agree to be the sole earner where there will be even less money in the household.

Both adults should have some free money to spend as they wish unless the household budget accounts for every penny. Working hard and having nothing to show for it is very soul destroying. If he can meet his share of the debt repayment and usual bills then he should have a good say in where the rest of his income goes as should you re yours.

[SolomanDaisy]

Bridget I hope you appreciate the irony of suggesting other posters think men shouldn't have feelings then saying in your next post that fertility treatment matters less to men.

[FatimaLovesBread]

"it's something the OP has tied up with her fertility treatment and need for a family."

Massive assumption there. Surely the extension and fertility treatment were joint decisions. How do you know they're all about the OPs needs and not her DHs?

[WhereYouLeftIt]

^"He said it is HIS money, and he will never discuss finances with me again if I am going to try and control how he spends it. And he wanted me to be happy for him and now I have ruined the whole thing.
He slept in a different bedroom and is not talking to me today."^

This is the big red flag to me. HIS money. OP, should the fertility treatment be successful, would you become financially dependent upon your husband? Because that could be a real problem.

You have emailed him about discussing financial goals. I think you should also discuss financial attitudes. You are married, that makes you both one financial unit IMO. You also subscribe to the notion of of his money ( "In a way, he is right - he can spend his money on whatever he likes and maybe it is not my my place to try and influence it." ). I'd presume you have both drifted into this attitude because you both earn roughly the same just now. That might work in the short-term but tends not to in the long. Things change, one earns less (or nothing if a SAH parent) and separate money in those conditions can be at best uncomfortable and at worst financially abusive (controlling etc.).

Do you each have any personal 'fun money' at all? It might be useful to describe how we do money in our house, for comparison. All income is joint, all wages paid into the joint account. We each get the same amount of 'pocket money' monthly paid into our personal accounts by standing order from the joint account. We can do whatever we please with that money, be it spending it as soon as we get it or saving it up for a big purchase. DH recently financed a cycling holiday in the Alps in this way, with no impact on our joint finances whatsoever. You've said your DH has wanted a Rolex for years, if your finances were arranged this way perhaps he could have had it by now?

I'm presuming that this Rolex is very expensive - "it is such a big sum of money that it could impact on big things like affording fertility treatment" - and therefore I agree with you that it should be a joint decision, because it affects you both. But perhaps if personal funds are built into your finances, you could both be happy with your financial planning. I'm making the presumption here that you do not run your finances this way. It may be that you do and he just fritters his on takeaway coffees, but if you do not - it might be worth considering.

[FatimaLovesBread]

He earned it? Whenever there's a money thread on here there's always tonnes of people saying it should be joint finances and joint decisions etc etc. Yet here it's ok for him to buy an expensive watch because he fancies it.
If she pays for a holiday, he will presumably benefit from that, what does OP get out of the watch?

And as for the posts insinuating that the IVF is the woman's "treat"
If someone had said that to me two years ago they'd have got a mouthful. We had IVF because we both wanted a baby however the problem was with my DH. I could have fucked off and found someone else to get pregnant by and saved myself a whole heap of money but I didn't. I suppose I should be thankful that the whole process was such a treat for me

[BridgetBidet]

Incidentally I am assuming that the extension is to make the house suitable for a family so again, it's something the OP has tied up with her fertility treatment and need for a family.

I've been through fertility treatment an it means less to men. We had to save up all our money to do it as we're not well paid. But I never begrudged my husband a beer at the end of the week or a Saturday at the football. This is on a larger scale, yes, but he is paid more. I can totally understand where he is coming from.

And the tune would be lot different on here if it was a woman who's husband was dictating where every penny of her salary should go.

[BridgetBidet]

And out come the Mumsnet LTB crew. Who think that man should have neither a thought nor feeling but instead be automatons who are there simply to agree with their wives and fund their lifestyles.

They have the money for the debts and fertility treatment. The issue is that she wants to spend this money on a holiday and he wants to spend it on a watch. To be honest he earned it, she can FRO and pay for the holiday herself.

[SolomanDaisy]

I'd guess that you are both under a lot of pressure with infertility. I think it's pretty common to have periods of denial where you think you won't need the money for treatment as it will just happen eventually.

[nkf]

I think that people need to be measured about money. Avoid debt and if you do incur it, then pay it off and incur no more. But, once you have set up a realistic debt repayment plan, then I think you can afford to live and yes enjoy things. Will this watch prevent the fertility treatment or make it later?

It might be that this is a good opportunity to discuss money and priorities and where his money ends and your joint money begins if indeed there is such a division.

Judging by the conversation you've reported, he asked for your support and then explained what he intended to do.

Personally, I think a Rolex is a ridiculous purpose, but it may mean a lot to him and it doesn't sound as if you listened. Your response, "right - but I thought..." It sounds a bit dismissive.

It's hard to tell on an Internet forum, but I think you are doing the right thing, puzzling over which one of you is unreasonable. I don't think it's particularly clear cut. It's not a watch versus bill paying. It's not an impulsive buy that leaves you short this month.

Good luck.

[YoniMontanasLittleFriend]

I dont see the problem here really,he is basically saying he wants to pay everything like you agreed with eachother and get a watch due to a payrise. You shot him straight down without even asking about price or anything, that would annoy me too. Also up until à week ago you were planning a holiday so all it sounds like to me is he would prefer à watch he has wanted for 9 years over à holiday one year which he could go to next year.

[hermioneweasley]

We don't know how much the watch cost, but if it was £3k, then that's the best part of an ivf round. That could be very significant in the near future.

[LadyKooKoo]

Maybe in the scheme of things it is not too much....You are right, except they have debt!

[racmun]

The whole watch thing is a status in some work places! It shouldn't be but it is- maybe he feels that it's a reflection on how he's doing in front of his colleagues.

If its new I'm guessing about £5k if secondhand £3k, which is a lot for a watch but in the scheme of things is it that much?

If he is usually pretty good with money then I'd be inclined to say go ahead, if this is just another gadget in a long list then I'd be annoyed.

Maybe sit down tonight and try and start the conversation again. You may have reacted slightly worse than you realise as you think it may affect the fertility treatment which is obviously an emotive issue so maybe try and explain that to him.

[nobeer]

I'm with you, hermione and fairylea.

OP I hope he's at least apologised for shouting at you.

[hermioneweasley]

Fairylea - we seem to be a minority. No wonder that the country has a debt crisis .

[Fairylea]

I don't think he understands that until you've paid off debts there is no extra money. To me that alone makes him unsuitable to have a child with as he sounds to me like the type to consider debt "normal" and to me personally being in debt is scary and not normal (said as someone whose husband went off and left me with 26k of debt).

[hermioneweasley]

I cannot get over this attitude of "extra money". They are paying off debts and saving for expensive fertility treatment (followed by expensive mat leave and a huge reduction in disposable income if the fertility treatment works). There is no extra money.

[angeltattoo]

Maybe by buying a second hand one, he thinks he is already compromising?m

[ExperienceHunter]

I've bought a 'vintage' Rolex for £400 before, it's not like he's buying himself a flat...