to pleased that something is being done about online porn.

[mootime]

Don't get me wrong, I am not totally anti porn. Each to their own. I have been reading more and more articles about the impact of online porn on our children due to it being so easily accessible and frankly it scares me.

I have nieces who are 18 and 16 and they constantly post pictures of themselves on FB pulling "porn pouts" and basically posing provocatively. I also know that they have been active for a good few years. I know that when I was that age I was no angel (far from it) but I'd seen one porno (by accident at a friends boyfriends house) and was horrified by it. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be viewed in that way. It seems like its now considered the norm.

I genuinely hope that restricting access makes it less "normal". Its a bit like an online version of having to go to the newsagents to buy it. It doesn't ban it, it just makes it something you deliberately have to access.

It not porn that is making them pose like that, its muic videos, and TV shows!

However I feel instead of blaming external media, we should look at ourselves as parents. Why are we not monitoring what our children do online more. x

Louise I think that's a valid point, but it's a sticking plaster on a gaping wound. Fact is that many parents don't supervise their DC's internet use and stop doing so at a surprisingly young age (1/4 of all 5 year olds allowed unsupervised net access).

We either make this a parental problem or decide it's yet another example where the state has to step in to make up for inadequate parenting because there is a greater social good to be achieved in doing so. I think it's sad that it is necessary - this should be a parent's job - but is IS necessary, clearly.

It IS a parents job. Full stop. Just because many parents are useless doesn't change that fact. Parents that allow their young children unsupervised internet access are failing as parents. It is not the governments job to bring up children, and if they do this it just validates parents who are not prepared to be parents.

It also condemns best part of a whole generation. The fall out from that affects us all.

Good job we didn't take similar attitudes towards education and child safety or we'd still have children up chimneys.

SinisterSal Nonsense libertarianj. Tedious nonsense which boils down to I lik cummin and I don't care about anything else. The harmful affects of porn are well documented - perhaps try the 'anti-porn lobby' for data.

But it's not nonsense though is it? The harmful effects of pornography aren't well documented, the studies that have been done are mostly agenda driven and rely on cherry picking data and lots of assumptions. It's total junk science.

The fact is sex crime hasn't increased, teenage pregnancies haven't increased, more people are having children later in life, sexual diversity has increased. People are more open about their sexuality and have more liberal attitudes. Broken society? i think not.

Dahlen It also condemns best part of a whole generation. The fall out from that affects us all.

As I pointed out earlier the current group of 25 to 30 year olds would have been the first generation to have grown up with access to internet porn. I am not seeing any evidence to indicate that they have turned out warped or depraved, have you?

I think we need to remember that the conversation about whether porn is harmful is actually neither here nor there when we are discussing the proposed porn filter. Whether it is or isn't this porn filter is still unworkable and a far inferior solution to any of the pre-existing solutions.

"unless you never let your teenagers out the house they will have infetted access to the Internet via their friends."

True. But this filter will not stop that anyway.

In fact this filter may actually give them more access if they were to go to the house of a friend whose parents have assumed the ISP filter has made the internet safe. Whereas before those same parents might have installed filters/supervised internet access.

Harmful effects of pornography on adults is open to debate. Harmful effects on children is pretty much agreed on across the board, that's why it's relevant to this thread - online access is how they're coming across it.

Even 10 years ago those 25 year olds were 15. It's not like today's 7 year old coming across it.

FWIW though, I don't think this filter will work.

Oh I agree, I hate it, and definitely don't want my DS seeing it ever! So far the only useful options are a combination of computer filters, supervision and educating them. Maybe one day we'll have the tech to do more, but right now and in the near future I just cannot see it.

Slightly OT but kind of relevant, a few people in the web design community think that we should scrap web programming as we know now and start from scratch. It wont happen, but it does show the level to which current coding is flawed. And because it's flawed any attempt to police it is also doomed from the get go.

It's censoring and might parents think it will make it less needful for them to teach their children internet safety. To think your children will be safe just because your computer is blocked from adult content is very blue-eyed.

I also resent the thought that you'd be looked on with suspicion or as a dirty bugger if you decide to opt in, and you just know that's going to happen.

Harmful effects on children is pretty much agreed on across the board

err no it's not unless you believe everything you read in the Daily Mail

I wouldn't quote anything I read in the Daily Mail thank you very much.

How about the following:
Journal of Sex Research
Behavioural Psycotherapy Centre
Symposium on Media Violence and Pornography Proceedings
Family Therapy Journal
Universities of Canterbury, Kent and Bedfordshire (acting on appointment by government - there are other universities with their own studies.

The damage exposure can do depends on a lot of variables - age of first exposure, length and frequency of exposure, type of material viewed, etc. Not all children exposed will end up traumatised for life, some won't even register it. Not one single report has ever concluded that exposure to internet pornography is a good thing though, or even 'harmless'. Indeed most of them are urging the government to do more.

I am completely against this censorship.

I'm currently living in the US so this won't affect me for a few years. However, I shouldn't be able to access BBC iplayer or other UK channels. With the help of a proxy server, I can view all of them and it took me about 20 minutes from looking for a solution to having one installed. I am reasonably tech savvy but the point stands that it is so easy for anyone motivated to do so to work around the porn filter.

At my last job, they had filters to block adult content, and there were plenty of innocuous sites that were blocked that would never be classed as adult. Most people will turn opt in because it will become too annoying to find anything worthwhile reading on the net.

I hate to say it, but I am a big fan of bdsm where a woman is undergoing some kind of punishment (not so much a man) and also have rape fantasies. Am I now suddenly a criminal or guilty of dehumanising women? I consider myself pretty normal, passionately believe in women's rights and equality, am staunchly against rape, and no one who knows me in real life would guess at this part of me, except my husband.

My children have laptops/kindle fires, and I am the administrator. They have the free but very good Windows Live family safety software installed on the laptops, and I get weekly reports on what they've been viewing. The kindle fire comes with brilliant controls anyway (and only I have the password).

I've also talked to them (youngest is 10) about the weird stuff on porn films and how people are always trying to do the strangest most outlandish stuff so that people will watch, and that very little of it is normal. That it's designed to make you want to see more and more (like smoking cigarettes). I also explained how once you see something, you can't unsee it, and that it can mess up your mind for a while. Even my youngest understood this, as the first time she saw a murder on tv, she was traumatised.

I feel that even if they do see something at a friends house, I will be able to deal with this because I regularly talk about internet safety and reinforce the message that most of what's available online is out of the ordinary.

Sorry that's so long. In conclusion; parents take responsibility, because the govt will do a useless job of it in your place.

"parents take responsibility, because the govt will do a useless job of it in your place."

This this this!

I wouldn't trust them to organise a piss up in a brewery, I certainly wouldn't trust them to keep my DS safe online!

I wouldn't trust my child's internet safety to a filter either, and I think the filter is positively dangerous because of false sense of security it will deliver.

However, we're all talking from the vantage point of parents who care. I'd like to think about a solution for the literally millions of children whose parents are either ignorant or neglectful, or those whose parents watch porn themselves so leave any such filter turned off anyway.

I don't see how a filter can solve any of those issues, hence why I don't support it, but I think a debate needs to be had on how we deal with children's access to porn.

Dahlen Agreed. It's a really difficult one though isn't it. There's definitely no easy answer.

I don't see how a filter can solve any of those issues, hence why I don't support it, but I think a debate needs to be had on how we deal with children's access to porn.

I agree with that. Only this government doesn't seem to do debate at all. They have a passing idea, and then there's a new policy, without having asked anyone who knows about the technicalities, or thinking of all the pros and cons, or whether it's consistent with any other recent pronouncement.

I'm very up front about it with the teenage lads I work with. (12 - 16) When it comes up in discussion, which invariably it does, I say it as it is. A few red faces initially but I think they do take it on board if they are not already too entrenched in it.

They way i see it is that we need to ruin it for them early. Load it up with the reality that it is going to ultimately make them pretty crap boyfriends who won't have a clue about real sex and will find it difficult to get into real sexual relationships when they get older.

What I hope I achieve is that when they go to look at porn, they remember my warning and I have ruined it for them a bit. Hopefully enough for them to be a bit scared and ambivalent about looking at it and recognise it as not at all reality.

I myself am a bit worried that i won't be able to look at a bit of porn now and again. It seems like a serious committment to ring up my isp and request it. I'm nt sure I'm that committed.

ruin it for them early. Load it up with the reality that it is going to ultimately make them pretty crap boyfriends who won't have a clue about real sex and will find it difficult to get into real sexual relationships when they get older.

Periodfeatures, I like your thinking

There have been quite a few threads on MN recently where women complain that men who watch a lot of porn are rubbish rather detached emotionally in bed.

There are also male sexual problems caused by too much wanking to porn - affecting their sensitivity and causing problems maintaining erection/getting to orgasm during normal sex - such can be the effects of constantly using an overtly explicit visual titillation and the hand... rather than an emotional/sexual attachment/attraction to a real person.

Dahlen I wouldn't quote anything I read in the Daily Mail thank you very much. wink

How about the following:
Journal of Sex Research
Behavioural Psycotherapy Centre
Symposium on Media Violence and Pornography Proceedings
Family Therapy Journal
Universities of Canterbury, Kent and Bedfordshire (acting on appointment by government - there are other universities with their own studies.

You do realise that the first one you quoted is actually Pro porn? i quoted from it the other day on another porn related thread and here was the article:
www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/11/26/shock-study-female-porn-stars-have-higher-self-esteem-better-body-image-are-more-spiritual-than-other-women/

Also with regards to the Canterbury one would you really trust a government appointed study? which was based purely on collating a number of other studies and is inconclusive. To quote a line from it:

"we do not know whether exposure to or accessing pornography causes attitude or behavioural change, nor whether the attitudes children and young people hold before access or exposure to pornography may make them more likely to seek out pornography."

www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/content/publications/content_667

With regards to the others you have quoted I am struggling to find much at all. The family Therapy journal is based on sexting which is totally out of the remit of filtering anyway. The Symposium on Media Violence and Pornography Proceedings is from 1984, can't find much from that either and the Behavioural psychotherapy centre, well that could be a whole range of things which came up on google? Extremely vague. If you have any more specific links i'd be interested to analyse them?

If you want to investigate some more debunking of porn myths then may i suggest you check out this:

www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/apr/15/sex-myth-wrong-brooke-magnanti-review