To think parents should teach their children how to behave round dogs

[Xihha]

There have been a few posts lately about people needing to control their dogs more (and I agree, if you cant control our dog and clean up after it then you shouldn't have a dog imo), but is it unreasonable to expect parents to teach children to be a bit more careful round dogs?

Whilst walking my dog (on his lead) a child who looked about 10 ran up and stuck his head in my dogs face to make a fuss of him whilst i was picking up doggys poo, without checking if it was ok, there have been other times kids have just walked up and started pulling doggy around, this sort of thing happens a lot, especially in the summer when there are more kids out playing and the parents rarely say anything about it.

It's not really an issue with my great soppy lump of a dog because he loves kids and will put up with anything for a bit of fuss but shouldn't these kids know that you should check with the owners before approaching strange dogs and that even a nice dog can get pissed of if you start pulling it around?

Lazyjaney Did you know that cars kill maim and injure children? Every day? I bet you still drive/travel in one though don't you? You are clearly just a dog hater, and that makes me sad :(

'What people on this thread are in essence proposing is that they want to take a thing that is known to injure, maim and kill children into a public space, and that the very children who are most at risk must be trained to handle them and their dangerous possession, not the other way round.'

So a bit like expecting parents to teach their children road safety then?

Adult human being kill more kids than dogs.

Animals have a right to live on this planet too. We are much more destructive and dangerous than any animal.

Not read all yet but lazyjane, a dog on a lead is considered under control !

If a dog is under control, has no past history of aggression and is being handled by someone who is keeping it well away from people in as far as is possible, and some out of control child comes running up to a dog and assaults it, I definitely feel there is culpability with parent. Just as, if a loose dog chases a horse and gets kicked for it, the responsibility lies with the owner of the dog, not the horse.

That said, with aggresssive dogs, or those who react disproportionately to "normal" situations, the onus is on the dog owner to take steps to muzzle, and potentially avoid times and places where they are likely to meet children.

Saintly - he probably does lift his arms, I do too. See, I just don't know this stuff either and I am genuinely interested because no one in my family has dogs. I have never been taught anything other than the basics myself. I know enough to stop them stroking other people's dogs, without permission and that is about it. To be honest, it's never been that big a problem. DS isn't so scared that he can't be around dogs at all, PILs have one and he is fine around him.

Sorry I'm 100% with Shelly. If the dog attacked, you'd seriously blame the child or parents?

Yep I'd place the entire blame on the parent if the dog was on a lead/under control. That doesn't mean I won't give the child a serious telling off before you get to us not will it mean I won't give you a piece of my mind re your negligence. I will however feel sorry for the child with a parent like you...

As a parent it is your responsibility to teach your child how to behave in public if you can't manage that simple task don't take them out, same with dogs

you let your child run up to an unknown entity and harass it. Dogs are not robots, they have feelings and do react to stimuli. Most of the stories in the papers re dog 'attacks' are the fault of the parent/child/people not understanding basic dog body language/lack of dog-human socialization and for the most part were completely avoidable

If you give the owner fair warning before asking if your child can interact with their dog they can put the dog in a safer position (eg, sit, stay) and show your child, with your help, where to stoke and how to do it gently instead of running up and launching themselves at the dog before heavily 'patting'/pulling at the dog Or they can say no your child can't stroke him as - he's old/recovering from injury/scared of children ect or just plain no :)

My dog doesn't have a tail so I can't use that to tell how he is feeling

bit of a disadvantage

Not read all yet but lazyjane, a dog on a lead is considered under control

Until it injures a child. A lead is not a muzzle.

Some of you have a very serious reality bypass when it comes to knowing who carries the can for you or your property injuring or causing damage to other people.

And you will never, ever, ever win a "he hurt my dog first" argument against a furious parent with an injured child. Don't even try to go there.

This is where the phrase "never argue with a fool..." begins so easy to understand.

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes - if you've got a friendly dog barreling at you to jump up and say hello, ideally want he wants to do is not make any noise, fold his arms stand still and don't look at it...if he's also big enough to turn side on if it carries on then that will usually stop him being bounced on.

But of course people shouldn't actually be letting dogs do that, unfortunately the minority of dog owners that do let their dogs do that are the ones people notice, those of us walking quietly by with a dog just wouldn't be remembered.

ynbu.
my children are are taught not to touch a strangers or infact any dog with out the owner permision.

its common sence is it not?

Lazyjaney: If the dog bit my child in a public place you would be liable for prosecution. If the child needed stitches your dog could be put down. In all cases I can sue

I am telling you now, you are 100% wrong in the situations that have been described here. If a dog is under control which simply means on a lead and the child or adult that is bitten has provoked said dog the owner will not be prosecuted and the dog will not be destroyed.

An owner can choose to have a dog PTS in those circumstances, but cannot be forced to.

I suggest you don't let your child(ren) approach any dog you don't know, because you are woefully ignorant where the law is concerned.

Lazeyjaney, you just hate dogs, and that's a shame for you and your children.
There are far more pressing dangers to children in this world and the fact that you are focussing on this is a bit disturbing.

Thanks Tabulahrasa and others who have offered sensible advice.

Always always ask the owner before you pat a dog esp if its on a lead and under control. Lets put it this way would you like some random stranger walk up to you and start irritating and prodding you or would you tell them to f**k off, I know what I would do. I will let anyone who has asked pat my two dogs, they are very child friendly, but if they don't ask they get told no and why.....

LazyJane, you have completely utterly misunderstood the DDA (1991)

Section 3.1 refers to "dangerous dogs" in public places, I think this is the section you keep bleating on about. It reads:

^If a dog is dangerously out of control in a public place?
(a) the owner; and
(b) if different, the person for the time being in charge of the dog, is guilty of an offence, or, if the dog while so out of control injures any person, an aggravated offence, under this subsection^ (House of Commons Library, 2013 )

So to try and explain it more clearly, prosecution can only occur if the dog is dangerously out of control at the time the injury occurred A dog on a lead, by default, is not dangerously out of control, but lets assume that you don't believe this to be the case, which I am sure you won't, I will pretend that dogs on leads are not automatically assumed to be under control and try and explain the law for you in a way you should understand.

A dog, on a lead, walking to heel, by his owner's side, is the very definition of a controlled dog. If a child should happen across that dog and decide to run up and whack it on the head with a stick and the dog reacts like a dog and snaps at the child causing minor injury, it will not be assumed that dog (still on a lead, still by his owner's side) was dangerously out of control. There is not a single canine behavior expert in the whole entire world, who would state that the dog in that instance was out of control. The reason for this being that if the child had not approached the dog without permission and had not caused it pain, the dog would not have reacted. The child and the parent who allowed the child to act that way, were the ones who instigated the incident, therefore it was the child and parent who were out of control, not the dog.

In other words, it is your responsibility to control your child. It is not up to the dog owner to prevent your child causing their dog pain or fear, it is up to you.

It's also worth bearing in mind that in the eyes of the law, dogs are property, much like mobile phones. If your child runs up to me and snatches my phone out of my hand and proceeds to willfully damage my property I can sue you for damages. Equally if your child runs up to my dog and causes injury to my property that requires veterinary care, I can sue you for damages. Vet care is not cheap.

I don't actually believe that LazyJane, herself, believes the shit she is posting, I believe that either she posted in a knee jerk, without thinking and is now not mature enough to hold her hands up and say "you know, what, you're right. I never thought about it like that. It is my responsibility to control my own child" or she was and still is trolling for the sake of right from the start.

What is more worrying is usually reasonable and supposedly educated posters are coming along and posting "I agree with LazyJane" Really? Have you actually read her posts? You honestly believe it is up to the dog owner to prevent your child from causing their dog pain or fear? You honestly believe that if your child does cause their dog pain and they fail to stop your child in time resulting in the dog defending itself, like a normal dog would, that is the fault of dog owner, for not controlling your child properly?

I hope your are right but I fear it could be all 3 combined

Well, fifty odd years ago I was taught by my Parents

1. never pull a dog's tail - it will hurt them and they may well bite you, in which case it's your own fault (applies to cats too)
2. Never pet a dog you do not know without asking the owner if the dog is friendly
3. Be wary of dogs loose walking the street. If one runs at you DO NOT RUN

Of course dogs should be under owners control, but of course children should be taught how to interact with other living creatures that they will come across - dogs are pretty much everywhere!!

oh, and of course, Let sleeping dogs lie

We utterly loath and detest dogs.In the past year my son has been bitten by a neighbours dog,2 children have been knocked over by an off the lead dog who chased them and I was attacked last weekend(thankfully the beach bag it bit 5 times wasn't my ankle).Mil still as scars from a bite when delivering parish news and my mother has a ripped coat from going out on a walk,ditto great aunt.

All times we never approached.

Makes me livid that people actually think dogs should have precedence and kids should be trained around them.My kids hate dogs- end off. If anybody needs training it's dog owners who need to keep their dogs away from other people and out of their space at all times.

The law needs tightening.