To think parents should teach their children how to behave round dogs

[Xihha]

There have been a few posts lately about people needing to control their dogs more (and I agree, if you cant control our dog and clean up after it then you shouldn't have a dog imo), but is it unreasonable to expect parents to teach children to be a bit more careful round dogs?

Whilst walking my dog (on his lead) a child who looked about 10 ran up and stuck his head in my dogs face to make a fuss of him whilst i was picking up doggys poo, without checking if it was ok, there have been other times kids have just walked up and started pulling doggy around, this sort of thing happens a lot, especially in the summer when there are more kids out playing and the parents rarely say anything about it.

It's not really an issue with my great soppy lump of a dog because he loves kids and will put up with anything for a bit of fuss but shouldn't these kids know that you should check with the owners before approaching strange dogs and that even a nice dog can get pissed of if you start pulling it around?

children are rude.get over it. If they weren't poking your dog they would be poking other children or taking their toys
Math that is absurd!
My children and thankfully no children that I know, have ever poked a dog or another child, and they are taught to share their toys nicely.

LtEve -- thanks for the dripfeed about your choice of walking route and time. The safety of children is no less your responsibility whether dogs and children encounter each other on MOD land at 5 in the morning or the local park at 2 in the afternoon

I didn't drip feed the time I was off lead training. That was already there.

I mentioned in a previous post about training on MOD land, I assumed that people would actually RTFT so would know, but obviously that was wrong, I apologise.

I called to the mother and child to let me get the dogs on leads. Both ignored me. I don't blame the child, the mother should have stopped her.

I further quantified that had the mother and child NOT ignored me I would have been able to teach the child the best and safest way to approach and fuss a puppy.

Recall training has to be done whilst a dog is off lead. Owners that do not teach their dogs to recall are irresponsible.

I took every sensible precaution available to me to ensure that no-one got hurt, but those precautions are worthless if parents are NOT responsible themselves.

Please tell me how exactly I am supposed to 'force' a parent to actually parent their child? And why is it more important that I care for a child's safety than their own mother?

I find it interesting that you are so entrenched in your own views that you cannot concede even the slightest bit when confronted with a scenario that challenges your views.

In my case of Friday morning the parent and the child were entirely in the wrong. Thankfully we all (except the mother) had great fun and there was no disaster. But if there had been, it would have been completely the fault of the mother - and she is the one that would have had to deal with it and live with the consequences, not me.

I agree that if a child comes running up to a dog or puppy then it's the parents' responsibility to stop the child. But IME it's far more likely to be the other way round, and it's the dog or puppy which comes bounding towards the child. And that's not my responsibility as a parent: it's the dog owners responsibility to keep their pet under control.
Time of day has nothing to do with anything: being out with your pet at 5 in the morning on any public land does not make one exempt from responsibility

Private land Janey, not public.

Yes children are rude, they need to be taught by their parents how to behave appropriately by parents..

Mumsnet is full of people moaning about children hitting their children, damaging their property or generally being rude and parents doing nothing about it and when they moan people agree that parents should supervise children, yet when someone moans that they had a dog with them and that happened - it's their own fault for owning a dog instead of being out in public alone or with children with toys to steal.

So presumably it would be ok to moan that a child took my ball out of my bag and a parent let them, but not if they took the same ball if I was using my dog to carry my ball?

Janey - I'm approached more often by children than dogs, other dog owners tend to see me with my large dog on a lead and try to avoid me as they assume (wrongly) that because of the type of dog he is and that he's on a lead that he might be aggressive. Parents don't because I meet them on pavements so the assumption is that he must be fairly trustworthy or I wouldn't have him out around people...which is a fair assumption to have, I expect the same of other dog owners.

To be honest, I suspect the dogs who run up to people are probably the dogs of people who let their children to the same.

Dallas- I'm not sure why you are 'correcting' my post?
I stand completely by what I said: time of day or night is irrelevant. Any dog walker who takes their pet on land which the public have rightful access to, needs to keep their pet under their control whether its 5 am or 5 pm

Ah- maybe you thought I was referring specifically to your situation? Not at all. I was making the point in response to the fact that time of day had been brought up, that's all. Time of day is irrelevant.

Argghhhh

Some dogs are well mannered and some children are well mannered
Some are grotesque and should be kept indoors
Most are inbetween and get on really well

"I used the phrase MAY HAVE deliberately, and it did not indicate in any way, shape or form the level or amount, quality or quantity of support available to anyone."

Well what was the point of it then? Some parents of NT children 'may have' relatives who are experts in the field of child development, some parents 'may' be those experts, some parents 'may' be involved in up to the minute research in child behavioural theory - it's not relevant because the majority of parents don't have access to these people who can tell them what is to be expected from their child.

Parents of children with SN don't magically become different people because they have a child with an SN, for all but the most severe SNs there is no support for parents at all and for very serious SN's there is patchy substandard support - all those parents are muddling through parenting in exactly the same way they do with their NT children and parents with only NT children do.

It's not acceptable to let your child poke other children or take their toys either. Clearly sometimes this happens, but you then make sure an apology is given and take immediate steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I also think

Oh never mind, can't be bothered to carry on with what I also think.

Indeed, Ronald. Only on Mumsnet do dog/people interactions become a hotbed of mudslinging and screechiness. In real life, you have the odd unfortunate encounter, mutter a bit to yourself and then...carry on with your life.

Well only on the internet - have you ever been on a dog forum? They're harsh about misbehaving children.

That's true, tabula. Dog forums can be scary places.

As far as rudeness goes, many feel if you are going to bring an attractive dog into a park you are asking for whatever attention comes your way. If you don't want the attention, don't bring the equivalent of a Victoria's Secret swimsuit model out to the place where its natural fanbase congregates.

What if it isn't a park? What if it is just walking down the road or on rural hiking trail? Is there anywhere I can walk my dogs without having to put up with them? (in your mind)

And following on the an example I posted waayy back when a child jumped on the back of my dog while we were outside the village shop. Do you think the parents should have apologised for the actions of the child?

Math - I d

Oh actually forget it. I see no distinction between kids with SN and kids without. I expect parents to supervise to a level required for their child. Granted mistakes are sometimes made (such as mine which resulted in my NT child being kicked in the head by a horse) but lets not put all the onus on the dog owner/horse rider/car driver. If they're somewhere they're allowed to be parents have done responsibility for supervision.

And thank you Donn (think it was Donn - previous page :) )

And math - you were speaking about kids with disabilities as if they are completely different from children who are NT. As if the parenting experience is completely different. I remain confused about what a doctor could tell me about parenting a severely autistic child as they rarely have anything that approaches hands in experience but still. I find the distinction you made offensive.

I know longer even attempt to educate & instead see ds1 as my filter, so I'm not sticking my umbrage anywhere. If you wish to be educated I'm happy to share, but I suspect you won't be accepting my offer. No problem.

Candidae - come on clearly you should only set foot outside your house at midnight, you can't expect your dog to breathe the same air as a child.

Incidentally we were just playing footy in the park with ds2 & ds3. An elderly dog bounded over looking happy. He sniffed my hand & I checked visually with the owners & stroked him. Then he bounded off. No one was savaged, we exchanged a smile with a stranger. All round pleasant life enhancing interaction. How nice.

Midnight? But I have to get up at 4.45am to get ready for work? Shall I just go to sleep at 6.00pm and get up at 2:00am to walk the dogs?

I might invest in a few more german shepherds to help me feel safe walking the rural footpaths at stupid o'clock. Yay more dogs!

Tabularasa - This is in contrast to Saintly's statement that she knows how much supervision her DS is going to need now and for the foreseeable future (constant and at a high level). Clearly, learning from his mistakes is not what Saintly envisages as a primary means of coming to an understanding of hazards for her DS who is now 14 but does not understand the dangers posed by the cars to which handbrakes are attached. My point was that NT children are expected to learn by their mistakes just as much as by instruction. If dog owners are going to use real live children as props for training puppies or socialising dogs then they need to acknowledge that some NT children need to experience consequences of encountering dogs in order to learn.

Tabularasa -- yes there are a lot of moaners about. But children are children and no amount of moaning is going to change that. Nobody has a right to expect anyone else to shun fruit shoots and Greggs sausage rolls and other abominations or bring their child up according to their standards of behaviour. There is too little patience with other parents, too little 'there but for the grace of god go I'. With the best will in the world, children and their parents can have a bad day.

Saintly, I am not making a clearcut distinction between all NT and all SN children. Every child and every adult occupies a place on a spectrum. However, many children are far enough along the spectrum to warrant a diagnosis, which your DS has or you yourself would not have made the distinction between your NT and SN children.

Yes indeed, Chickens and Ronald.

Canidae, no, there is no public place where you can be assured you will not encounter children, and if you are using MOD land mothers besides you also have a right to use it.

Tabula, I dispute your assertion that parents of children with SNs become different people. Every parent becomes a different person with the arrival of each new baby. The dynamics of your life change forever and your priorities change no matter what your child is like. Some children are more labour intensive than others, some are more challenging from a psychological or emotional standpoint. But none of them will leave a parent's life exactly as it was before they arrived.

Parenthood humbles parents and teaches many important lessons. It saddens me to see so much prescriptive 'parents ought to.. ' thrown around so blithely and so clearly without much putting of oneself in another's shoes. Parenthood brings unique challenges to every single parent and one size of parenting approach does not fit all.

mothers besides you = others besides you

children are rude.get over it. If they weren't poking your dog they would be poking other children or taking their toys
Math that is absurd!
My children and thankfully no children that I know, have ever poked a dog or another child, and they are taught to share their toys nicely."

Donnadoon, you make me pmsl.
"Absurd!"

Do you get out much?