To think parents should teach their children how to behave round dogs

[Xihha]

There have been a few posts lately about people needing to control their dogs more (and I agree, if you cant control our dog and clean up after it then you shouldn't have a dog imo), but is it unreasonable to expect parents to teach children to be a bit more careful round dogs?

Whilst walking my dog (on his lead) a child who looked about 10 ran up and stuck his head in my dogs face to make a fuss of him whilst i was picking up doggys poo, without checking if it was ok, there have been other times kids have just walked up and started pulling doggy around, this sort of thing happens a lot, especially in the summer when there are more kids out playing and the parents rarely say anything about it.

It's not really an issue with my great soppy lump of a dog because he loves kids and will put up with anything for a bit of fuss but shouldn't these kids know that you should check with the owners before approaching strange dogs and that even a nice dog can get pissed of if you start pulling it around?

Christ alive Lazy talk about dogged!!.....you're making me laugh now though, so thanks for that
How about designated areas for morons? I would totally vote for that

I'm sorry but having a severely autistic 14 year old I really don't buy this 'children are so hard to teach'. If I had decided it was just too difficult to do anything his hanbraje obsession would have got him if not his standing on bannisters 3 storeys up obsession. If your child can't be taught you supervise. I position myself to prevent ds1 dashing into danger (actually i also position myself betweeb my dog and small children, not because I think he might hurt them, but because I think they might hurt or frighten him.). Yes you shouldn't be out with a dog that rips faces off people for pleasure but that's not really what we're talking about here.

Well some people seem to be implying that if a child strokes a dog without being invited then they are at fault if they get bitten.

Well children are harder to train than dogs to be fair, rubbish recall, they growl at you when you give them a command and I've got one that resource guards...and you're not allowed to crate train them.

Young children don't have fully developed impulse control, but children who aren't capable of making correct choices should be supervised for many other reasons than just dogs.

An adult modelling polite behaviour by reminding children to ask before touching and telling them that dogs aren't so keen on hugs not having arms and not really understanding what they are or telling them not to poke - that's all absolutely fine.

An unsupervised child who doesn't know these things, not so much.

I get that children like dogs and they like to pet strange dogs and sometimes they forget to ask, I really do. Dd2 was went through a terrible stage of doing this but I didn't just let her.

If I spotted the dog first I got hold of her hand and refused to let go until we had passed the dog and/or she had asked politely if she could stop to stroke it. If the owners said yes, I would pet the dog with her and show her how to handle strange dogs. I would then remind her to say thank you to the owner.

If she spotted the dog first and ran off, I didn't just go "Oh well, she's run off. I'd better hope that women 10 meters away isn't as high as a kite and isn't going to slap her" I ran after her and she was not allowed to ask if could pet the dog because she had run away and not asked.

I did this because it is my job as a parent to teach my child good manners and respect for other people and their pets. It's fucking hard.

She got the picture fairly quickly when she realised the consequence of not asking was not even getting close to the dog she wanted to befriend.

It's not fucking hard, that should read.

I'm amazed at your stamina

"You are still labouring under the misapprehension that a parent has an obligation where dogs are concerned".

Lazey, I will take responsibility for my dog - I said that in a post way back - but I also take responsibility for the way my children behave. And that's the bit that seems to be missing from everything you say. I am NOT responsible for the way your children behave.

I accept children will forget - as I also said earlier. But in your insistence that the owner has all the responsibility you are coming across as though you believe that you as a parent have none. That it is quite unreasonable to expect you to say "Don't run up and grab a dog you don't know". And I just don't understand why this is. I am confident that my dog wouldn't react (because she hasn't done when in this situation) but if kids are taught this from the start then these occurrences are less likely, and everyone benefits. I get to better supervise interactions and ensure the dog isn't hurt, or the child frightened. I don't understand why you keep saying "The dog owner has all the obligations" without a single acknowledgement that you also have obligations as a parent.

If you let your children do exactly as they please there is a considerably greater chance that they will come to harm somewhere along the line. You can minimise that risk by teaching them appropriate behaviour (around dogs, cars, horses, fireworks or whatever). Do you take those steps to minimise the risks to them from cars, or do you also believe that it is entirely down to the drivers and your child should be allowed to act as it wishes? Or is it only with dogs where suddenly you have no obligation to even take a small step towards keeping your own child a little bit safer? And there are parallels. Dog walking calmly next to owner, doing it's own thing, child runs up and kicks dog (as we had happen) - my dog wouldn't (didn't) react but you can see why some might, surely? And why it's a good idea to teach your child not to do that? That child was setting a situation up where it could have been bitten - if the child had behaved better, the situation would never have arisen in the first place. And you haven't given this any value - which is what I find annoying in the extreme. All you have said is "The dog should be able to take it because it is a dog and is therefore far less important than my kid and I don't think I should have to teach my child anything because you are the one with the dog."

If you use the parallel with cars: Driver driving sensibly along the road, doing nothing wrong, child runs out - child has put itself in that position. Is it entirely the drivers fault because kids forget and the cars are likely to be where kids are (next to schools for example) so you as a parent had no obligation to teach your child how to behave? Or do you think "Hmmm, if I teach my child this one simple thing, it will massively increase their chance of staying safe by not triggering this sort of scenario in the first place" and therefore teach them?

I am still waiting for you to acknowledge that as a parent you have some responsibility for your child. All you have done, consistently, is to try to offload all responsibility on to other people.

Mixed feelings on this one. Some children are told by their parents but for various reasons don't / won't listen. Dog owners have to keep dogs under control and be able to move away if a child is behaving inappropriately...

D0oin - I think you may be me! I am still slightly peeved by the woman who told me off for not letting DD touch her dog after she'd tried to pet it without asking. I did as you did - told her that because she hadn't asked she now wouldn't be able to stroke it at all, and we had the mother of all melt downs. The woman told me it was a shame, the poor little mite only wanted to be friends with the nice doggy and I was going the right way to make her terrified for life and the dog wasn't dirty if that was what I was worried about. I explained - we have a dog, DD tends to treat all dogs as though they are as friendly and used to her as ours is, the rule is she must ask or she isn't allowed, I'm not even slightly worried about dirt - still got "You didn't need to make her cry though, she can stroke the dog, it's friendly"
No she can't - SHE DIDN'T ASK so it's not going to happen!

"Some children are told by their parents but for various reasons don't / won't listen. Dog owners have to keep dogs under control and be able to move away if a child is behaving inappropriately..."

Yes to the second, foreverondiet. But as to the first, do you then abdicate responsibility completely? "Oh dear, well, my child just won't listen so I won't stop them pestering that dog which clearly doesn't like it/playing with those matches/standing in the middle of the road". Or do we reserve this kind of helplessness just for when they are about to hug a strange dog? Do we suddenly find we can control them when it comes to running into a car? Or jumping off a train platform?

It's a weird dichotomy that only appears to be present when dealing with dogs. Dogs are dangerous, savage animals, who even when on a lead may rip your child's face off, possibly to the point that they shouldn't be allowed out in public (the dog, not the child, although....!!!) but in the same breath, it is impossible to prevent your child from running up and grabbing it, children are uncontrollable like that. I just can't think of any other situation where someone is simultaneously so paranoid about the danger yet so unwilling to take even basic steps to keep their child 'safe'. Where they are so keen to offload all the responsibility for keeping their child safe onto the shoulders of total strangers. And lets face it, I like to be careful about how children interact with my dog. There are owners out there who don't care.

It's like drivers. Most are careful, but some aren't, and you teach your child road safety because you know that if they come up against someone who isn't paying attention while driving it will be safer for them if they understand a bit about how to behave. You won't always be able to guarantee that they will remember but you don't not teach them road safety because of that, do you?

I had a child who couldn't listen. Still can't. Ask him where his shoulders are - he can't tell you. I've still managed to teach him not to touch cars. And managed to keep him away from a dog he was fascinated by because he looked exactly like ours.

"Dog owners have to keep dogs under control and be able to move away if a child is behaving inappropriately..."

Move away? How? I can't levitate my dog, if I could just walk on I'd have done that already.

Actually, thinking about the dog owner moving away, I could see this being really awkward.
What happens if a child is attracted to your dog and tries to touch it. Your dog is unhappy about this, you tell the child but they don't stop (because some children just won't listen). So you start to move away but the child follows. How far do you go before the parent can accuse you of using your dog to lure their child away? And where does the responsibility lie here? Or do we all have to accept that our dogs have to put up with whatever treatment a child metes out, whether the child means well or not? Because I also have a responsibility towards my dog, which is to keep her safe and happy. While her well-being may not come above that of a child, I feel it does come above the rights of a child to do whatever it likes without restraint.

So dog owners absolutely must have 100% impeccably behaving dogs or they should not be out in public, if they are not able to train their dogs. Lazy owners, tsk.
But you can't expect that children can always behave, they are children, after all, unpredictable? Just won't listen, those cute darlings?

Dogs' intelligence is on par with a 2-year old child. So of you demand and expect that dogs are always perfectly behaved and if not, you consider it the fault of the owners, we can also expect the same from all children (older than 2). No?

Children are not equal to dogs, dogs are not equal to humans full stop. Children as humans have greater rights to be in public spaces.

Can't believe some people refuse to accept this.

"Dogs' intelligence is on par with a 2-year old child"

No it isn't! That's just bonkers.

A well behaved child is a joy to be around, same as a well behaved dog

A poorly behaved example of either should be kept at home as to not distress anyone

Neither has more right to a public area than the other unless there is a council sign stating otherwise. As guess what, well behaved dos and children can be in the same place at the same time without issue.

curlew there are some scientific papers that suggest they are as clever as the average 2-3 year old.

• dogs not dos

They must be papers produced by people who have never met either a dog or a 2 year old, then.

"Children are not equal to dogs, dogs are not equal to humans full stop. Children as humans have greater rights to be in public spaces.

Can't believe some people refuse to accept this."

Can't believe that some people refuse to accept that they have any responsibility for their child's behaviour. A child may have greater rights to safety etc. But does their right to do whatever they want (like kick my dog) trump my dog's right not to be kicked? Sorry, I don't think it does. I will totally agree that my dog shouldn't bite, but I also accept that my child does not have an unending right to do what the hell it likes, particularly if that causes distress to an animal.

'Children are not equal to dogs, dogs are not equal to humans full stop. Children as humans have greater rights to be in public spaces.

Can't believe some people refuse to accept this.'

I am also a human, having a dog with me does not in fact make me a dog.

I fully accept that humans have more right to be places than my dog, that's why I keep him on a lead and taught him to walk to heel. I also have a right to walk without another person mistreating my possession - the one I have taken every precaution I can to keep out of people's way while in public.

'Children as humans have greater rights to be in public spaces.'

No they don't. Everyone (and their little dog too) has an equal right to be in a public space. People ? not dogs, adult people ? should take measures to make sure their children know how to approach or not approach other people/other children/other people's children/other people's dogs. People with dogs should take measures to ensure that their dog is under control. Everyone has responsibilities.

"but I also accept that my child does not have an unending right to do what the hell it likes, particularly if that causes distress to an animal."

Has anyone, even for a moment, said that a child has a right to do this?

I despise straw man arguments.