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Original poster

To think parents should teach their children how to behave round dogs

999 replies

Xihha · 19/07/2013 21:27

There have been a few posts lately about people needing to control their dogs more (and I agree, if you cant control our dog and clean up after it then you shouldn't have a dog imo), but is it unreasonable to expect parents to teach children to be a bit more careful round dogs?

Whilst walking my dog (on his lead) a child who looked about 10 ran up and stuck his head in my dogs face to make a fuss of him whilst i was picking up doggys poo, without checking if it was ok, there have been other times kids have just walked up and started pulling doggy around, this sort of thing happens a lot, especially in the summer when there are more kids out playing and the parents rarely say anything about it.

It's not really an issue with my great soppy lump of a dog because he loves kids and will put up with anything for a bit of fuss but shouldn't these kids know that you should check with the owners before approaching strange dogs and that even a nice dog can get pissed of if you start pulling it around?

OP posts:
saintlyjimjams · 22/07/2013 13:03

Goodness yes cats far more unpredictable than dogs (I'm not anti cat- I have two & have a job that involves cats). Their body language is much harder to read. There you are stroking and tickling away when suddenly you have then sinking their teeth into you. And cat bites are notoriously prone to becoming infected.

saintlyjimjams · 22/07/2013 13:05

And as well as kicking their arses my cats like to kill and eat rats. So they're even worse than dogs in terms of yeeeeew. At least my dog doesn't snack on the local rat population.

tabulahrasa · 22/07/2013 13:30

'cats can give the benefits of pet ownership without the risk of killing children....at least I haven't heard of a cat killing a toddler...but maybe I haven't been paying enough attention..'

I have cats too - I'm pretty sure one would kill us all if she got the chance, lol.

Seriously though, I don't think there's any realistic risk of my dog killing a child or I wouldn't own him, I don't even think there's any realistic risk of him biting a child...ok he's got teeth and he's never had his eye poked out with a stick, but I'm pretty sure I'd try and defend myself against somebody doing that, barring things like that he's a friendly waggy dog.

What I do worry about is that he is bigger and heavier than small children, he's also not very co-ordinated, I don't want him to accidentally hurt a child, if I have time to tell him to sit he will, but he's not psychic, he doesn't know I want him to sit and stay unless I tell him to. If I don't get the chance to tell him to then he's standing and moving next to a child smaller than him.

Canidae · 22/07/2013 13:43

I have a bloody cat and I don't even like them! I can tell you that she will bite and scratch when touched for more than 5 seconds. (ex-farm cat) Despite warnings next door's little boy tried to pick her up and she scratched him.

You coudn't pay me to have another cat.

SoupDragon · 22/07/2013 13:47

I haven't heard of a cat killing a toddler...

I've heard of plenty of parents killing toddlers. And non parents. Perhaps we should ban adults...

ICBINEG · 22/07/2013 13:53

soup yes but adults are necessary to human society...dogs aren't...

I am not saying that cats don't try and kill you in your sleep...I am just saying they don't succeed. Or if they do they manage to keep it out of the news

well this thread has led to an unfortunate discussion with my DH. Apparently he didn't realise that there was no way in hell I would ever share my house with a dog....

but I really couldn't do it. I would be miserable and slightly scared all the fucking time. Surely that is no way to live?

ICBINEG · 22/07/2013 13:56

lack I have been owned by a cat....

It's finest hour was waiting until I had just dropped off to sleep after being terrified witless watching Jaws, and then leaping off the top of my wardrobe onto my feet.

Far FAR fewer accidents caused by cats than dogs....I would imagine the accidents caused to humans not resident with the cat in question is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of those accidents caused to humans not resident with the dog in question.

ICBINEG · 22/07/2013 13:58

For one thing if cats don't like the visitors you have brought into the house they just fuck off out of it....

Canidae · 22/07/2013 14:10

Are you trying to convince people with dogs to get rid of them and replace them with cats?

I would be miserable and slightly scared all the fucking time. Surely that is no way to live?

The key word here is I. Thousands of people live with dogs and don't feel that for one second. No one says YOU have to have a dog.

And I have never had a problem with my dogs and any visitors to my home. If you don't like dogs, I put them in another room. If you do then they will insist on being petted before returning to their beds.

Haven't yet had a guest leave with an arm or worse.

SarahAndFuck · 22/07/2013 14:10

Ex boyfriends cat never liked me, and it didn't just fuck off out of it.

It used to hide under things or on top of things and then leap out and scratch and bite me. And then stalk me around the house, waiting for the chance to do it again.

We were like Clouseau and Cato in that house, I had to sleep with one eye open.

Canidae · 22/07/2013 14:11

I mean without an arm! That sounded bad! Grin

tabulahrasa · 22/07/2013 14:13

ICBINEG

Most dogs have no issue with people in their house or children saying hello or any one of the various things that could in a very small minority of dogs cause someone to be bitten, usually when dogs bite there are very exceptional circumstances or previous longstanding issues with that dog or they are dogs owned by people who really shouldn't be responsible for any life form.

Not every dog is a potential killer in the same way that not every person is a potential violent criminal.

That's not why responsible dog owners are a bit peeved about the way some children approach their dogs - they're not worried that their pet dog will savagely attack a child, they're worried about a minor incident happening because a dog is startled or an accidental injury or just that their dog is going to upset that child. Responsible dog owners want encounters to be a positive experience for everyone.

Oh and of course there shouldn't be a dog in your house unless every family member wants one.

josephinebruce · 22/07/2013 14:20

ICBINEG

You actually have the nerve to complain about us when you are the one teaching your toddler the word "fuck"?

Threefurrymonsters · 22/07/2013 14:22

I have been owned by multiple dogs and each one made me love dogs a little bit more.
I have been owned by multiple cats and each one made me love cats a little bit less.
Cats are far less predictable, their bites and scratches are vicious, they kill the local wildlife for fun and they don't actually give anything back.
I wouldn't harm a cat, or any animal, but you couldn't pay me to have another one either.

ICBINEG · 22/07/2013 15:04

jos lol. Yes of course that is exactly how I phrase it to my toddler Grin.

can did you just invite me to your house? Grin I was in fact talking about my DH suggesting that we should own one...so my own opinion was in fact very much the point in that specific post.

tab I think your post gets right to the heart of the matter for me. I have prevented people from getting up close to my DD because she doesn't react well to strangers and nobody wants to be screamed at by a baby....but there is a real feel to LOTS of the posts on here that people don't want kids to come up to their dogs because they don't really trust their dogs to react safely. Or don't feel their dogs should be expected to react safely. If that is the case then why take your dog into a situation in which kids are LIKELY to come up to your dog? Why keep a dog who can't be trusted in a situation when kids come up to it in the first place?

It seems to me that there are breeds of dog that are perfectly safe in all situations but very deliberate and persistent provokation. Why not restrict pet ownership to those breeds of dog only?

ICBINEG · 22/07/2013 15:12

omg one of my posts got deleted....and it was one demonstrating what was okay to post...oh the embarassment Blush

josephinebruce · 22/07/2013 15:15

I trust my dog to behave better than I would trust your screaming kid not to annoy him.

saintlyjimjams · 22/07/2013 15:27

My dog has has lots of ear infections. This necessitates muzzling at the vets to receive treatment on very sore ears. He's a young dog & this has been a repeated occurrence in his life. Therefore when held on a lead with small unpredictable people crowding him & potentially touching his sore ears he shows a lot of signs of stress such a repeatedly licking his lips. Therefore knowing that I would have to be an extra sort of idiot to want a child to pat him given the very clear signals he is giving. And only the stupidest parent would insist on their child's right to stumble over and torment said dog. This does not make him a dangerous dog. He shows no distress signals when off lead or when petted on lead by adults (presumably because he knows they don't generally poke him in the ears). I don't tell children to stay away because I think he's waiting to savage them - I tell them to stay away because in that situation he communicates clear signs that he is uncomfortable. I suspect he would just nudge them away if they did touch a painful ear but it's not a theory I wish to test really.

Canidae · 22/07/2013 15:29

You can come to my house ICBINEG. Shall I put the dogs away or would you like to meet them? Grin

I trust my dogs to react safely to kids running around them, petting them or walking past them. But I will not put them in a situation that may test their patience or cause them pain, such as the child climbing on my dog's back while he was sat by my side (previous post). He was well behaved but neither him nor I should have to put up with that.

crashdoll · 22/07/2013 17:39

I don't want a cat. Confused I want my dog. I don't like all dogs; most of them are ugly, smelly and slobbery. My little darling is wonderful. I may be biased. I automatically keep my dog away from your children, so please reciprocate. It's not rocket science!

KittensoftPuppydog · 22/07/2013 17:51

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ICBINEG · 22/07/2013 22:49

kittens feel free to take your own advice love.

Lazyjaney · 23/07/2013 00:39

The key words there are dangerously out of control and if the dog, whilst out of control. A dog on a lead is NOT dangerously out of control and will not be automatically PTS unless the owner wishes that to happen

LtEve, You are quoting the 1991 law verbatim, a lot of case law has passed under the bridge since then. The Dog Law website you pointed me to agrees with all the other legal sites dealing with this issue in that they note that, for Section 3 (the relevant section):

This is a criminal offence which can be brought against the owner of a dog (and if different the person in charge of a dog) if a dog is:
- dangerously out of control
- in a public place

And what is "dangerously out of control" defined as there?

'Dangerously out of control' is defined as being 'on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person'. Generally, if a dog bites someone then it will be presumed to have been dangerously out of control

You may want to re- read that last sentence and note the lack of words like "on", "a" and "lead"

Incidentally I've been very specific in every post I 've written in noting the owner is liable, not that the dog is automatically PTS although surely even you know that is a very possible.

Also, if you do reply to this do you mind doing it with facts and not just slinging personal insults.

Lazyjaney · 23/07/2013 00:41

Icebin- are you still chundering on with your deranged views? For god sake even you can't be mad enough to believe what you're saying

kittens do you have anything else to contribute except a continual stream of invective?

Lazyjaney · 23/07/2013 00:45

Yes, but Ronald, you are missing the point. A muzzle will not prevent unknown children rudely interrupting our walks and manhandling our dogs without our permission. It will not prevent our dogs being injured by ott children and does not negate the parent's obligation to parent their bloody child

You are still labouring under the misapprehension that a parent has an obligation where dogs are concerned. Muzzles would greatly help reduce the rapidly increasing rate of dogs biting children though.