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AIBU?

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to think that 20 grand on benefits a year is loads

792 replies

MrsBucketxx · 19/07/2013 08:36

considering they dont pay any income tax.

just watching we pay your benefits program and worked out that this is over 30 grand if it was a normal tax paying salary.

why was this not mentioned.

OP posts:
ParsingFancy · 22/07/2013 13:34

Yep, absolutely. Lack of personal morality absolutely caused the 90s boom.

Oh wait, you mean lack of personal morality caused the post-bank-crash recession.

alemci · 22/07/2013 13:36

totally agree peanut and to some extent my family tend to operate in this way and you often find some well off people have a similar attitude.

ParsingFancy · 22/07/2013 13:37

Nice cross with Dahlen there, Peanut.

And you haven't read much of MN if you haven't seen thread after thread of people sharing exactly how to make the most of leftovers, swap second hand stuff, keep warm when you can't afford heating etc etc.

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 13:38

Yes because leading up to that lots of people were living higher lifestyles with no real substance to support it. If people were so friggin greedy they would have been in a better position to fight off hard times.

Dahlen · 22/07/2013 13:41

PeanutButterMmm - how much were you spending back then? Don't forget that childcare bills are incomparable to what they were 20 years ago because legislation and rules/regulation have push the prices up massively. THat's not necessarily a bad thing, but you cannot compare, just as you cannot compare house prices to those of 20 years ago. Wages have risen too but not by the same rate, nowhere near as much.

If I hadn't had that help (it contributed about 45% of my costs) I would have gone under. Not only would I have been going without food (as I was already) but I wouldn't have been able to put a roof over my head either. As it was my DC were clothed via ebay and charity shops and I myself did not buy a single stitch of clothing or shoes for 5 years.

I could have given up work and gone on benefits fully I suppose, but that would probably have you judging me even more. Or maybe I should have just slept on the streets?

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 13:42

Yes parsing and it's a shame more people didn't have that attitude of how to make do and mend. Sadly things have gone so far the other way i doubt people will get back to that mindset.

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 13:42

My kids are 4 and 6

Dahlen · 22/07/2013 13:47

So why did you say "back then"?

Mine are older than yours but I was paying £1600 a month for full-time childcare.

Dahlen · 22/07/2013 13:48

That's simply not affordable on a typical income family.

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 13:48

I am not judging you Dahlen, i am just saying we are one of those families who pay for everything - full bills, no top ups or free this and that. We also had to pay full childcare costs too. We don't have high flying jobs either but we both share a mindset of have what we can afford and do up what we can when we can afford to.

So when people say they get help with childcare costs etc i wonder whether they think about what they are saying. Having it that tougher would be to get no help at all.

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 13:52

Back when i was paying full childcare meaning before the pre-school funding kicked in to help.

ParsingFancy · 22/07/2013 13:59

Oh, you don't get free education, healthcare, prescriptions while you were pregnant and for the children, dental care likewise? No Child Benefit (despite your not high flying jobs)?

That's what I mean by the cost of raising your children being paid for by the nation.

(We could start doing sums about whether I pay more for you and your children than you pay for disabled me. I don't cost much as I can't be treated and don't get free prescriptions, so I think you're probably getting more on balance.)

ParsingFancy · 22/07/2013 14:02

And actually I get less than DP pays in taxes, so as a unit we're almost certainly net contributors. Whereas your family almost certainly aren't.)

alemci · 22/07/2013 14:08

most of us pay into the system and take out as well as it should be.

JessicaBeatriceFletcher · 22/07/2013 14:11

alemci - agreed. and it's part of society that we should. it's just a pity it isn't a little fairer or less open to abuse.

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 14:12

I wouldn't call it completely free - paying thousands in tax is hardly free. Children get free eductation (how would they pay for it otherwise?) and (most) adults have to pay for education. Prescriptions free for 9 months - wow, i should have stocked up thenHmm

Why would you assume we have high flying jobs?

This isn't about who earns more and who earns less. I don't begrudge someone who is working their butt off on a long working week for a low wage. I said a few pages back that tax credits are flawed in you can have one person in minimum wage doing 40 hours and another on a much higher hourly rate with a much better job doing very part time hours yet because both incomes are a certain level they both get topped up. The former is the one who the tax credits are designed for, not so the latter can go part time.

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 14:13

Do you not have children then parsingfancy?

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 14:15

I agree alemci and Jessica.

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 14:23

"And actually I get less than DP pays in taxes, so as a unit we're almost certainly net contributors. Whereas your family almost certainly aren't."

What an odd thing to say. So you nor your dp went to school yourselves then? Nor have you ever had NHS treatment in your whole life then? Me and my DH never paid any tax beofre having children then?

Just because your circumstances at the moment mean your "dp is paying in more than what you take out" doesn't mean it's always been that way does it. What a horrible attitude.

People pay in throughout their lives and they take out throughout their lives as children and as adults. It goes round in circles.

ParsingFancy · 22/07/2013 14:27

PeanutButterMmm: "i am just saying we are one of those families who pay for everything - full bills, no top ups or free this and that."

Apparently you do get quite a lot for free.

BTW you said above that you don't have high flying jobs, hence asking if you got Child Benefit.

I don't have children. Said so above.

ParsingFancy · 22/07/2013 14:32

"People pay in throughout their lives and they take out throughout their lives as children and as adults. It goes round in circles."

Hurrah! Light dawns on PBM!

FYI, I've always been very happy that we pay for your children. But then, see my posts above about children as the nation's future wealth.

I was even happy to pay Shiney Dave's children's CB, when I was working fulltime living in a bedsit and he was in a naice house bought with inherited wealth. Some benefits just work better and cheaper if non-means-tested, and progressive taxes should balance them out.

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 14:36

Oh i see so are you one of those "people with children get everything we get nothing" kind of people. Education and healthcare are not "free" to us - we pay thousands in tax towards them.

As adults we pay for everything which was my point: full bills as in no help with rent or morgage, we pay full council tax and full bills, were paying full childcare, we pay for perscriptions and dental. Those things take all your money that was my point whereas some get lots of help with these costs.

Every child whether you earn nothing or loads get free education, healthcare, dental etc so i do not see your point? Unless you think we should go back to the days where children couldn't be eductated due to lack of family money and be in poor health likewise?

Dahlen · 22/07/2013 14:37

I don't think anyone would disagree that it's better to live within your means and that it would be great if families could get by with no help.

But what if the cost of living as simply as it is possible (i.e. sharing bedrooms with children, no holidays, second-hand clothes, etc) is STILL not doable on an average salary?

What then? Clearly, your make do attitude was enough because your income made it tough but doable. Mine wasn't. I embroidered flowers on my shoes because my toes had worn through the uppers and I couldn't afford to replace them.

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 14:43

"I don't think anyone would disagree that it's better to live within your means and that it would be great if families could get by with no help."

That was not what i was trying to say at all. I mean yes of course people should be less wasteful and more pro-active but my point was surely only the real needy should be the ones who get the help? The ones out there working every hour god sends to try and make ends meet on a pittance salary - they should be the ones getting help.

Part time sue on £12 an hour doing 2 days a week in a good job shouldn't be getting the same help as those on minimum wage doing 40/50 hours.

PeanutButterMmm · 22/07/2013 14:44

Hurrah! Light dawns on PBM!

There is no light to dawn on - it is you who needs to get the chip off your shoulder about what people's children cost and how you claim less then what your dp puts in! Hmm

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