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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

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Original poster

to think that 20 grand on benefits a year is loads

792 replies

MrsBucketxx · 19/07/2013 08:36

considering they dont pay any income tax.

just watching we pay your benefits program and worked out that this is over 30 grand if it was a normal tax paying salary.

why was this not mentioned.

OP posts:

RonaldMcDonald · 21/07/2013 14:41

More than

I guess you don't understand universal benefit?

It isn't universal if only low earners receive it.

I'm not a hypocrite. I don't sit at home allowing other people to top up my family's earnings whilst claiming I don't receive benefits

IMO you are part of the problem with benefits. You let others work and pay for our lifestyle.
I think the govt shouldn't fund that.

IneedAsockamnesty · 21/07/2013 14:46

Tax credits exist because many employers no longer pay wages that allow people to live outside of poverty.

But hey ho the employers ok because chances are they self fund even if everybody who does the work that enables them to do so has to claim to eat.

morethanpotatoprints · 21/07/2013 14:47

Ronald

It seems a bit stupid to work for nothing or for work to actually cost you if you have children. It's quite selfish really imo.
I had children to care for them myself, not to work just to pay somebody else to look after them. I personally find that scenario bizarre.
If people could actually earn a living wage then there would be no need for tax credits and more parents could be sahp if they chose to be.
Why does it bother you that people have their income topped up, when they are a low income household? I bet my household doesn't have half of the income you have, its all relative.

martini84 · 21/07/2013 14:51

Schooling is probably about 6k per year per child I guess. Healthcare is available free at point of delivery for all. It does not depend on what you put it. However, we certainly put in more than you would pay for private medical cover.
It would be nice to know though what the cut off point is to be a net conributor.
Knowing that woulsd get lots of the
We pay your benefits brigade off their high horse.

morethanpotatoprints · 21/07/2013 14:53

Ronald

I know this may be news to you, but I don't receive any money to be a sahp. My dh does as a low earner. Granted we don't have huge outgoings no child care, second car, a work wardrobe for me as we don't require these things. So we can afford for me to be a sahp. If I had these things to pay for, I'd have to work full time for nothing.
You are also the biggest hypocrite I have ever comes across, like I said unless you never claimed your benefit.

ShellyBoobs · 21/07/2013 14:56

It seems a bit stupid to work for nothing or for work to actually cost you if you have children. It's quite selfish really imo.

It's not that difficult to understand, surely?

If you earn, say £16k, you have take home pay of about £1150 per month.

Even if all the £1150 goes on childcare, you've still contributed £200 in tax and NI for the greater good of everyone.

Or does putting money into the pot yourself count as 'working for nothing' or 'working for no profit' as you like to keep saying, and it's only good for other people to keep contributing to the pot, not you?

JessicaBeatriceFletcher · 21/07/2013 14:58

morethan - um, that wouldn't be working for nothing. Wouldn't that be earning to support the family you have chosen to have? And helping to instil in your children a good work ethic?

Lioninthesun · 21/07/2013 14:59

Martini I own my own house and 'earn' under £9kpa from rent. As I own my house I can't claim benefits. It is a bit galling when you watch someone who has only had a part time job whilst at Uni complaining that jobs are beneath him when you can't even apply for those shop jobs because you can't afford childcare. I don't want to claim benefits but if they can't live on a tax free £20kpa then how am I supposed to make ends meet? Sell up so I have no definite place to live and spend the rest of my life throwing all of the sale money on rent? If you are on benefits you know you will always have a roof over your head. That is all I want, but the council tax, heating, electric and food bills mean I am overdrawn by £100 every month. I don't drive as it is a luxury IMO.
Mind you if the ex would actually pay his way we would be much better off, but such is life for many of us single parents. No one is going to run him over hot coals for his contribution to his child's poverty! not that he cares either I get £13pw from him and £20 in CB which I think is crazy - he should be paying more than the state for his own child especially when he is committing fraud and not paying into the NI pot purely to spite me

Trigglesx · 21/07/2013 15:05

No one is going to run him over hot coals for his contribution to his child's poverty!

That's part of the problem. The mum gets the hassle for being a lone parent, for needing benefits due to what's often an impossibly difficult situation, and for having babies they can't afford. Where's the stigma for the man that flits out and doesn't bother to help support his child? Nowhere.

martini84 · 21/07/2013 15:11

Well if I went back to work I would be paying more for childcare than I would earn net. So no there would be no point in me going back to work. Quite frankly we pay enough tax and ni from his salary to make a worthwhile contribution to the greater good.

martini84 · 21/07/2013 15:14

Soundds tough lioninthesun Liam is a pain and is frankly spoiled. The programme makers struck gold when they found him.

martini84 · 21/07/2013 15:15

So true about absent fathers too who don't their dc.

IneedAsockamnesty · 21/07/2013 15:16

Just because something is free at the point of use to everybody does not mean you are somehow better than another service user.

People throw around income figures when they talk about being net contributors I've seen quite a few on here but even those figures are never going to be certainty. My income makes me one by every figure I have heard being spouted but they don't consider actual service use of services with different cost dependant on issue.

morethanpotatoprints · 21/07/2013 15:18

Shelly

Of course if you have the same going out as coming in, the end result is nothing.
Do you work for nothing? No financial gain? Did you give your cb back again, or not claim it, for the good of everybody else?

martini84 · 21/07/2013 15:21

This seems to have gone off at a tangent. I am not saying if you earn x you are above others because you are a net contributor.
The point was trying to quite awkwardly made was that many of the people moaning that "wepay your benefits because you don't work " actually probably don't

martini84 · 21/07/2013 15:24

And as others have said before just as much goes out to people on in work benefits and the nearly universal child benefit. Plus the greates one is of course pensions.

RonaldMcDonald · 21/07/2013 15:24

Dunno why I am saying this..
I pay for private healthcare for my family and I
Ditto their education
My pension
I even have to pay to have my bins emptied ( first world problem, eh? )

I did receive a university education for free.

I am not eligible for benefits as I shouldn't be. I don't want benefits.

I think benefits should only be there for those in need.

Not those whose life choice is 'I'll sit on my arse and let someone else pay for it'
If your family qualifies as lowly paid because you are work shy I think that you should not qualify for benefits of any sort. If you both work and qualify as lowly paid that is a different story.

IMO It is a knowing exploitation of the system to stay at home and not financially contribute and then have your partner claim benefits for being lowly paid.

It may not be actual fraud but it feels it especially when other families work their arses off are fairly lowly paid and receive nothing.

morethan
I would guess your child isn't below school age?

LondonMan · 21/07/2013 15:26

Tax credits exist because many employers no longer pay wages that allow people to live outside of poverty.

It's not employer's job to ensure people aren't in poverty. It's not even meaningful to suggest they could if they wanted to. A wage can be adequate for a single person but not enough to support a family of four.

The most likely consequence of making employers pay significantly more than a market wage is that the job would disappear.

Tax credits exist because some families are incapable of earning enough to cover basic living expenses, and it is cheaper for the state to subsidise them in work than it is to have them living only on benefits.

JessicaBeatriceFletcher · 21/07/2013 15:28

I think one of the biggest issues with the whole benefits culture is that of entitlement and people thinking that they are entitled to X, Y or Z.

Once upon a time it just used to be those who were termed 'scroungers' who chose not to work and procreate left, right and centre. Now it seems from this thread that it is more widespread.

HappyMummyOfOne · 21/07/2013 15:30

Morethan, if your DH claims tax credits then you clearly cannot afford to be a SAHP as why claim it all those yearsif your income is enough?

Even if people break even earning a wage, its worth it to be self supporting. I think its says a lot about the person if they would rather claim benefits than work.

Yes absent parents should financially provide for a child and many do just as many lone parents work. However there is no difference between a non paying NRP and a none working PWC, neither are contributing to the child they chose to have. Life is not guaranteed, circumstances can change in an instant so its hardly comes as a surprise that someone has no means of supporting a child if they dont work and havent for some time. Its a situation of their own making.

martini84 · 21/07/2013 15:34

I wouldn't call a sahp workshy though. It really hard work especially when they are small. Although I would say thay there is some hypocrisy is this too. If a sahp with a dp earning good money does itshe is doing the hardest job.
If someone is doing it and her dip is low paid a few would probably think she is lazy and if a single parent does it she is deemed to be workshy, lazy etc etc.

martini84 · 21/07/2013 15:35

Dp not dip

peteypiranha · 21/07/2013 15:37

I think with tax credits then there isnt really any excuse not to bother working at all, and I do think its the lazy option and doesnt really set a good example to your children.

IneedAsockamnesty · 21/07/2013 15:37

Ronald that private health care would not help you if you or a member of your household required critical medical treatment

martini84 · 21/07/2013 15:40

Tax credits is only available for low earners though.

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