to think that 20 grand on benefits a year is loads

[MrsBucketxx]

considering they dont pay any income tax.

just watching we pay your benefits program and worked out that this is over 30 grand if it was a normal tax paying salary.

why was this not mentioned.

CloudsAndTreesSat 20-Jul-13 10:12:38

Darkest - what you are talking about can only be responsible for a very tiny proportion of unaffordable pregnancies, and the links you have provided are about America anyway?

Yeah cos reproductive coercion only happens in the States doesnt it.

Anyone remember the thread by Getting Big which started on the Relationships board last autumn?

Artemis said ...

How many times have you heard a man say that he is leaving work as the cost of childcare would mean HE is working for nothing? Why is it always the woman whose wage is seen as the one linked with child care

its the same mysogyny that blames women/single mums for getting pregnant. A mysogyny displayed by many posters on this thread.
Having children and paying for them is ALWAYS seen as the womans reponsibility/fault.
The same attitudes in society feed into both situations. Until these attitudes change (which wont happen because too many people have a vested interest in blaming single mums) then things will remain the same.
If you want to adopt a mysogynistic attitude to single mums and say that they and they alone are responsible for getting pregnant dont be too surprised when that same attitude comes back and bites you on the arse if you are a married woman paying for childcare. You cant have it both ways.

Mrs Sparkles i thought someone would use the Stephen Hawking argument sooner or later.
You hear a lot of this kind of disabilism. It was particularly rife during and after the Paralympics last year.
if Johnnie Peacock/Hannah Cockroft et al can do it why cant you? was the crying out from some tabloids and ignorant individuals.

However prior to that there was no crying out of "if they can do it why cant you" directed towards the able bodied population during and after the Olympics.
Its called disabilism. @EverydayAbleism.

oh good Lord, using Stephen Hawkins. Thats like pointing at any non disabled person and saying 'oi, You're not disabled just like Einstien or Usain Bolt, how come you cant do exactly that?'

Exactly Twisty Sparkles didnt actually mention Stephen Hawking but used the example of a disabled person that she knows of so its the same analogy.

Single mums aren't solely responsible for getting pregnant, but they are solely responsible for having the baby.

good point about it being in the vast majority women who it 'doesn't pay' to work

our childcare cost £2500 pcm - which I shared with my then h.
If we had considered the cost coming from one salary he should have given up work..except of course that he would possibly never have been able to return to his old job or industry and never made up the pension deficit
The costs, split between us at £1500, seemed do able and we both continued to work

we are both glad that we made the decisions that we did especially as we have since separated and are divorcing

back to my effectively nationalise childcare point

instead of a bounty pack, give each mother a childcare voucher to enable her to work.
then everyone has a chance to do what they want to and not forced into any avenue due to childcare

no more tax credits! except for the truly deserving

Why is it always the woman whose wage is seen as the one linked with child care

If she is the lower earner, which she usually is, then the rational alternative scenario is for her to stay at home. So it's perfectly logical that its her wage that needs to (more than) offset childcare.

(I've just done a quick Google, and from the headlines it would seem that 75%-80% of husbands earn more than wives.)

Its all very well saying people should work but where are the jobs?

If there are still recruitment companies...there are still jobs

Watching the programme in the OP has made me feel quite angry (especially that Liam who seems to have spoilt brat syndrome) and I am struggling to see how people can defend his choices? I wish I could have a phone that worked and a few labelled items or even a supportive family willing to pay my bills so I could look as though I earned 30k
How are business owners supposed to raise wages though? What needs to happen are utilities companies looked into and stopped from profiteering as well as making food cheaper. That seems to be something the govt should have more control over rather than putting the pressure on businesses who are having to make redundancies.

Do we have enough qualified and quality people to fill those jobs though?

londonman who earns more is irrelevant. The child is the responsibility of both parents, and the childcare should be paid for by both parents in proportion to their earnings.

Why a man would be willing to have a child but unwilling to do this I do not understand.

Why should CC be different from the mortgage or any other bill? Why is it gendered like this? Your argument is not logical it is misogynistic.

YY Artemis. I agree.

Although child care is the responsibility of both parents, if they are together, it still wipes out a full wage however you look at it.
If it doesn't make a financial profit for your family, what is the point of working.
I think my time has been far better spent as a sahm, rather than working for nothing.
Tax credits have meant we have had an acceptable standard of living.
People think that IF UC comes in with the changes that low income families will be forced into both parents working.
They don't realise that sometimes heaven forbid a parent might want to be a sahp and will continue to do this irrespective of losing their top up tax credit, it just makes it tougher for the kids.
Its hard to believe that a society is so bothered by what others have got and petty jealousy, its very sad.

It's not "working for nothing" though, is it? You are earning a wage, rather than having someone else work for it on your behalf.

People are bothered about what others have got when they look at their payslip and see the amount in tax they pay so that others can get tax credits.

Its all very well saying people should work but where are the jobs?

There are roughly half a million job vacancies at any time in the UK.

I read recently that for the first time ever more jobs are advertised as being for graduates than not.

There might be a lot of graduate unemployment but they are by no means the only people affected by the current economic climate.

If it doesn't make a financial profit for your family, what is the point of working.

Because some other fucker has to work to pay your upkeep if you've just chosen not to provide for yourself!

I think my time has been far better spent as a sahm, rather than working for nothing.

You wouldn't be 'working for nothing' FFS! You would be earning a wage and then spending it on paying bills like other people do.

Tax credits have meant we have had an acceptable standard of living.

Wonderful, so you choose not to work and everyone else pays to support your standard of living.

Its hard to believe that a society is so bothered by what others have got and petty jealousy, its very sad.

In other words, no one should be questioning what you're managing to cream off the state?

And that pretty much sums everything that's wrong with the current system and why it MUST change.

It's supposed to support people in genuine need, not those who have made lifestyle choices at the expense of everyone else, as you have done, morethan.

why do kids have to come into it ,plenty single people struggling too and we can't claim tax credits.Job centre worker told me best to have a baby(impossible at my age) or find something to be made disabled with(fit as a fiddle).
,so working for crap wage and finding it very hard but would rather work than live on bebefit.I think tax allowances would benefit everybody and be fairer

Lets not forget folks that tax credits were not traditionally seen as "benefits". Therefore many people may indeed have chosen to stay at home etc if their income was no higher in work.

I get full tax credits now (plus extra as my son is autistic). I still bring n LESS than when I was in work. I suspect you would only be better off in work if your job was above the NMW.

When I spoke to a Jobcentreplus adviser recently about going back to work in the next few years he said that if I took a job at NMW I would need to do a minimum of 30 hours to be better off financially than now.

It is no wonder some people don't work...and I don't consider them "lazy" but sensible. Bills still have to be paid etc and if you don't bring in enough to pay the bills (at a time when life is much more expensive) then it simply is not viable. In fact in work you would then have to add in child care, travel etc.

I am fortunate, when I go back to work I have a job I can go back to which pays much more than the NMW. I wouldn't blame anyone for deciding that at NMW it simply is not going to be a viable option.

MrsSparkles

Is your relative in constant pain?
Does she have panic attacks?
Does she have depression?
Does she need constant medication that makes her vomit/forget things/unable to drive?
Does she have severe fatigue?
Does she have any learning disabilities?

Using a wheelchair does not make you any more or less disabled than another person with disabilities. And I would bet even money she receives DLA.

The statistic I saw was that more jobs were advertised for graduates than for those with no qualifications.

Liam was picked though to suit the programmes agenda though. Picking a single person om jsa who has worked for 25 years before bring made redundant who has to cover everything except rent on £71 per week wouldn't make such good tv. Who cares that thats the reality of life for single jsa claimants who are not supported by family. Who even hAs to pay to sign on because they closed the local job centre and a contrivution to council too.
Or worse still someone who brough theit home before veing made redundant so get very little or no housing support.

Newsflash. Not all people for sahm expect others to pay for it. Well noone ecxecpt the father of tbeir children. We don't even get child benefit.