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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to think that 20 grand on benefits a year is loads

792 replies

MrsBucketxx · 19/07/2013 08:36

considering they dont pay any income tax.

just watching we pay your benefits program and worked out that this is over 30 grand if it was a normal tax paying salary.

why was this not mentioned.

OP posts:
gordyslovesheep · 19/07/2013 18:51

I get you Morethan and I agree x

gordyslovesheep · 19/07/2013 18:53

where do you draw the line then HappyMummyOfOne (you dont sound happy tbh) education, healthcare...

HappyMummyOfOne · 19/07/2013 18:55

Theres a huge difference to a SAHP claiming benefits and a working parent childcare assistance. The latter is working, therefore paying tax and after a few years will cease to need childcare but will still have a job. It also means the chance of promotion or a rise. A SAHP is not contributing and has no recent work experience once the child benefits stop or their partner leaves etc so work would be very hard to come by.

I also think its good for chilldren to see both parents financially contributing, girls need to know they they can self support and boys shouldnt believe that just because they are male it means they are expected to work all hours so that their wife doesnt have too.

filee777 · 19/07/2013 18:56

My suggestion would be prove your on long term contraception before receiving benefits, via doctors note, or at least after the second child you are claiming for.

Of course they won't do that because its against human rights, so they will just cut benefits to children and carry on allowing people to breed endlessly in 1 bed flats because that's not against human rights at all.

Controversial but would work....

HappyMummyOfOne · 19/07/2013 18:58

Gordy, education and healthcare are different.

I'm very happy thanks, just because i disagree with taxes paying for people to choose not to work or have as many children as they like doesnt make me miserable. Benefits should be there for those truly unable to work, not for lifestyle choices.

JakeBullet · 19/07/2013 19:02

No tax credit
No child benefit

Is that all the child related benefits out there? Not sure.

That would reduce my income by nearly £500 a month (I get higher tax credits as DS is disabled).

What is that income replaced with though? Please don't say "work" because currently my son's needs mean I can't work. It won't be forever but currently it isn't possible. I DO manage to give three hours of voluntary work a week though which involves supporting families who need support. It might lead to paid employment in the future I hope.

So no child related benefits would mean I could not actually feed us...or perhaps I could but not heat my home (not required at the moGrin) or pay for water.

When you stop all child related benefits them you harm the most vulnerable people in society.

handcream · 19/07/2013 19:04

Why do you think HappyMummyof One is 'not happy'. Just because she is questioning why women have children they can clearly not afford or deciding to have another child without any visible means of support. It is irresponsible.

Bringing up kids in a household single or not where no one works sends out a message to the children and not particularly a good one. It is known that very young women having babies with errant fathers tend to encourage their children to do the same.

handcream · 19/07/2013 19:06

There are also some scare mongers on benefits on various threads saying that if their benefits are reduced they will not be able to feed them -really.....

Whothefuckfarted · 19/07/2013 19:06

Lol all you want filee it's true. Your brain washed. Well done.

gordyslovesheep · 19/07/2013 19:07

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/06/welfare-britain-facts-myths you must have missed this link Happy - only 8% of 'people on benefits' have more than 2 kids

no she seems quiet cross that's all Grin

I work with those 'young women' btw - and it's way more complex than that - still lets blame them and not the 'young men' who I suspect where also involved

filee777 · 19/07/2013 19:08

You've just got to look at food differently I'm afraid, less meat n more lentils, seasonal fruits and veggies, jams and pickles for winter, the way people lived for hundreds of years.

JakeBullet · 19/07/2013 19:08

My auntie who lived in Switzerland nearly all her life couldn't believe how much parents were given in benefits here. In Switzerland a baby is seen as "a family issue" and no benefits are paid. Nurseries are well run and a Mum is expected to find work very quickly (within a year I think). However, child care is supported etc.
Work is very well paid out there though, all my cousins live very well on their salaries. They don't actually NEED any support because wages are higher....and this in a country known to be expensive.

If we paid a proper wage in this country then our benefits bill would drop rapidly.

gordyslovesheep · 19/07/2013 19:09

when I read threads like this I find myself really hoping that those who buy into the anti human beings claiming benefits they are legally entitled to brigade never have to find out the hard way what it's like

it happend to a DM reading friend of mine - she was stunned to find out how little she got when she had to sign on

filee777 · 19/07/2013 19:10

It's not just 'people on benefits' that are the issue, it's people on long term top ups too.

Whothefuckfarted · 19/07/2013 19:13

you're! lol

morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 19:16

Happymummy

I didn't quite make the sleeping under the stars as the poster up thread but as I have said many times the tcs could have gone to replace broken metal window frames, a decent reliable car (not a new one) a car for me, central heating. All the things you need living in the countryside. We could have paid tradesmen to make our home inhabitable, but we saved the money, did without or did it ourselves. So yes, we did need the money just the same as anybody on a low income does.

handcream · 19/07/2013 19:18

A proper wage for what Jake? We all have choices, some choose to have their children very early in life with no means of support or with a errant man. Some choose to do 9-5 and no more, some choose to stay in the middle of no where and claim there are no jobs, some say they cannot drive, some say they have a poor choice in men meaning they are left to look after the babies. Some mess around at school, some are genuinley sick and need support.

I dont want a minimum wage. I chose to have my children late in life. I choose to work FT. You seem to indicate that people dont have choices to make. They do. Often they choose poorly or just dont want to do the roles that demanding the extended hours. Maybe they have elderly parents? Well we all have that issue.

If I was offered for example a minimum wage, zero hours contract I would look at what I can do to increase my choices. Not come bleating on about how unfair life is on a minimum wage. If you dont like it look to do something about it.....

morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 19:20

Happy

I forgot to ask.

Do you think all parents should work then, even if what they will bring home is less than what they would pay in child care?

handcream · 19/07/2013 19:24

And that's the issue More Than. Work should always pay. There are people caught in a trap where they are only able to apply for minimum wage roles (for all sorts of reasons) and who then find that benefits pay MORE. Completely crazy

MrsSparkles · 19/07/2013 19:24

Jake in principal I agree - it should be a combination of higher wages and lower benefits.

However I'm a business owner - I employ around 60 people - if the minimum wage went up say £2 per hour I would probably need to lay off 10-ish people. Just to note I currently take less out of the business than my senior staff earn in wages.

I think it should never pay more to be on benefits than in a minimum wage job, and people should never have the chance to get into the dependency cycle that we do currently have.

I used to live in central London, and I got so cross whilst on maternity leave watching all the people living in this prime location and not working, when (for example) when I gave birth, my midwife had to travel from an hour and half away because she couldn't afford to live closer - wrong on so many levels.

handcream · 19/07/2013 19:26

My DB lives in an ex council flat in Central London and the block is full of people who have lived there for years. His next door neighbour is a women in her early 60's in a 3 bed flat, never worked wondering how she can transfer it to her late 20's son.

All wrong....

handcream · 19/07/2013 19:30

Mrs Sparkles. People asking for a higher wage dont get it. This country has lots of businesses like yours. As long as they are are OK its fine. They just dont realise that there wont be the jobs or there will be less of them Are they buying British?

morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 19:38

MrsSparkles

Can you see though that the wage you pay your staff isn't enough as considered by the gov and they will probably be receiving tax credits.
I'm not saying its your fault btw.
My dc will sometimes arrange a band for a wedding. People won't pay more than their budget and it is usually the band who are at the bottom of the list.
He then pays everybody from this budget. Sometimes taking into consideration the travel costs, fuel, time etc, hours playing, setting up, sound checking etc. Its quite often not the min wage.

MrsSparkles · 19/07/2013 20:07

more

I get that - so how could I pay my staff more. If my corporation tax bill went down say, but that will only happen when government spending goes down which means cutting benefits. It's like a never ending circle with no clear point to start.

I would love to pay some of my staff more as they do a fantastic job, but we literally don't have the money to.

morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 20:23

MrsSparkles

I understand and know you can't do anything about it.
I agree its a never ending circle. At least your business pays you enough. My dhs doesn't, even though he works all the hours.
I don't think it will change anytime soon, just the same as folk won't stop benefit bashing Grin
I'm sure your employees understand the situation and tbh in this climate its nice to see small businesses like yours surviving.