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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that 20 grand on benefits a year is loads

792 replies

MrsBucketxx · 19/07/2013 08:36

considering they dont pay any income tax.

just watching we pay your benefits program and worked out that this is over 30 grand if it was a normal tax paying salary.

why was this not mentioned.

OP posts:
morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 17:07

Jessica

So, what do you propose to people like myself and mousy who didn't plan their last child.
I didn't want such a huge gap between my dc and certainly hadn't planned dd. I can't think of life without her and feel sick that somebody would think that because my dh is a low wage earner we shouldn't have kept her.

FasterStronger · 19/07/2013 17:07

its not going to go back to women/parents should stay at home. as the world population grows and standards of living equalise globally, everything will get more expensive.

EllieArroway · 19/07/2013 17:09

Surely to goodness we have not all become so PC that we can't point out that getting pregnant while already on benefits is really, really not on?

I am a massive supporter of the welfare state - I think (along with the NHS) it's one of our finest achievements in this country. And I love that we care enough about each other to ensure that those who need help get it.

Most people who claim do so because they have no choice and I don't begrudge them a single penny. But come on, there HAS to be some personal responsibility here. Two parents who are out of work should not be having more children. Sorry.

And there are plenty of jobs around where you don't need qualifications other than basic numeracy and literacy.

morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 17:10

martini

Unfortunately, it is the greedy entitled taxpayers who are begrudging others, less well off than themselves because they no longer can claim benefits. These to me are the most entitled as they didn't even need their benefit

JessicaBeatriceFletcher · 19/07/2013 17:12

martini - I have already said, I have never claimed any tax credits, my only 'benefit' as a single person is a 25% discount on council tax. And I have also already said that I don't object to my taxes doing on schools etc because of 'forward planning'.

morethan - I also already said that I appreciated mousy didn't plan their third child. But there are people out there who are in a position like hers and CHOOSE to get pregnant. I am not suggesting everyone goes out and gets abortions!

But, I am an only child. I asked my mum once why. Her answer was very simple: "We could only just afford you. We couldn't afford any more children, so we didn't have any". I don't actually see what's wrong with that. I think that is a responsible attitude.

twistyfeet · 19/07/2013 17:13

You sleep under the stars Pippa? In central London? Hmm

FasterStronger · 19/07/2013 17:14

I can't think of life without her and feel sick that somebody would think that because my dh is a low wage earner we shouldn't have kept her.

I have many talented friends who will not get to have even one child because they have never met the right person in their fertile years. someone having to limit their family to 2 is really not a big deal.

morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 17:15

Faster

How do you know, have you a crystal ball. I'm sure those mums 20+ years ago who looked down on working mums never thought for one minute they would be judged many years later.
What goes round, comes round.
If it ever happens that one wage is able to sustain the support of a family, then we could quite easily get back to "bad working mums" who don't need to now.

gordyslovesheep · 19/07/2013 17:17

what you can 'afford' changes though - I had 3 planned children with my husband ...who left ...and suddenly, in order to keep working, as I had for 23 years, I needed CTC - lives change - it's very simplistic to say you shouldn't have kids if you can't afford them, I could

morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 17:18

Faster, accidents happen. If you read neither my nor mousys last child was planned.
But people would rather think they were conceived to earn money, this is disgusting and the alternative of not continuing with a pregnancy because you are on benefits is even more disgusting.

JessicaBeatriceFletcher · 19/07/2013 17:18

morethan - are you genuinely of the belief that everyone should just have as many children as they like, even if they themselves can't afford it?

martini84 · 19/07/2013 17:19

Wasn't aimed directly at you jessica. Was more a general observation from the other tbread and various facebook comments which has in recent times appeared on my wall.
Obv do appreciate a childless person puts in more to the system than they will get out. My brother is on a good salarywith no dependents but he has never complained. Yet I have seen people on fb who have only just started working full time 8 years after having dc complaining that she is going out to work to pay for these people to have dc. Of course she receives chb, wtc. Tax credits etc.

JessicaBeatriceFletcher · 19/07/2013 17:20

gordy - there is the world of difference, and you know it, between a change in circumstances when you already have children, and choosing (I am discounting 'accidents') to have children when you are out of work and living on benefits.

morethan - you are deliberately choosing to disregard what we have said as regards 'unplanned' and 'planned' children while on benefits.

FasterStronger · 19/07/2013 17:22

more than - yes I have a crystal ball.

RonaldMcDonald · 19/07/2013 17:23

I am utterly bored by people who don't consider their tax credits, working and child, to be benefits.

I find that those in receipt of tax credits are some of the fastest to look down on others 'on benefits'

The reason I posted earlier suggesting ending tax credits was to rattle the cages of those who are happy to have a cap set on out of work benefits but not reduce the massive tax credit bill.

No one, except the truly working poor, should receive tax credits
Everyone else needs to accept the size of their pot
Single parents should receive childcare vouchers to remove the burden of childcare from them if they so wish and are able to work

Any couple earning more than £25k should not receive tax credits

FasterStronger · 19/07/2013 17:24

more than - many things happens and as adults we need to take responsibility for them. if the govt has money to help people have children, I would rather it was spread amongst more people than given to those with 2 dcs already.

Lazyjaney · 19/07/2013 17:24

I think maybe people complaing about peope popping out children should bear in mind that they are the taxpayers of the future

It's the popping out of children while on benefits that people are complaining about, as (i) it's not an option for many of those taxpayers who have to pay for said kids and (ii) the much higher likelihood that those kids won't work either.

So, what do you propose to people like myself and mousy who didn't plan their last child

What frustrated taxpayers are in essence proposing are that they don't want to pay for these kids, as they suspect your decisions would have then been different and more like what they have to do, ie p,an their families responsibly.

antimatter · 19/07/2013 17:28

FYI just to give salaries as a context - my friend with 2 kids 17 and 14 yo, both parents working - earning one 18 the other 19K aren't entitled to any benefits
she works a p/t, he works f/t

morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 17:33

Jessica

I am not disregarding what you have said but struggle to see the difference in terms of claiming benefit. Either planned or unplanned pregnancy results in the same result for those on benefits.
Granted you have said that you realise mousy didn't plan the last pregnancy, which I didn't see and misinterpreted your post, for which I am guilty, sorry.
I am a little defensive on this topic as see no mileage in it at all.

GoodTouchBadTouch · 19/07/2013 17:35

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RonaldMcDonald · 19/07/2013 17:35

so your friends earn 37k and one is a pt worker

why on earth would they receive benefits or tax credits?

do they get child benefit?

JessicaBeatriceFletcher · 19/07/2013 17:37

morethan - are you genuinely of the belief that everyone should just have as many children as they like, even if they themselves can't afford it?

Sorry to ask again, but your earlier postings basically suggest no one should undertake any family planning.

morethanpotatoprints · 19/07/2013 17:39

Lazy,

If you believe your last comment then you are a cheeky cow. Both my ds 21 nearly 22 and 18 year old work. Ds1 has 4 pt jobs because they aren't secure so as he is being made redundant he has something else. My dc and dh have a great work ethic thank you.
There is no evidence that benefit claimants dc don't work in the future, except for a minority. But hey, don't let that get in the way of the truth.
Some dc appreciate the fact that both of their parents haven't put money and work before them, even if it has made them reliant upon a top up benefit.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 19/07/2013 17:39

Goodtouch..that post is so out of order.

I mean who on earth do you think you are?

And DH and I both work before you make digs at ME.

Alisvolatpropiis · 19/07/2013 17:40

Well in flat out monetary terms - 20k is a lot.

But when you consider rent,food,clothes and general bills it works out at significantly less.

The benefits system doesn't function correctly but I would prefer it to stay the way it is than society revert back to to what it was pre WWII. People living in slums,families living in one room etc. Truly awful living conditions and a genuine "well I'm alright jack" attitude from everybody who wasn't affected.

Yes some people might be too lazy to work. Should their children suffer for it though?

Should people who genuinely can't work have to see their children suffer for it?

No