Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Reclaiming childcare costs

32 replies

BobbinUp · 17/07/2013 14:37

I am interested to hear views. I work for large corporate professional services company at first level management grade. I do four days a week Mon - Thursday. Last week a client meeting was set for a Friday due to diary conflicts and I was asked if I could arrange to go. We nanny share and by pure chance our nanny was doing an extra day for the others so I could join in on that. My director suggested I might day swap but thats quite complicated due to childcare arrangements and I thought it might be an opportunity to show I can be flexible and go over and above so said I wouldnt! However it cost £36 in childcare fees and I was planning on expensing these. I have spoken to our accounts team who say its not unusual but I need line manager sign off. Line manager is diff to person above and has agreed to sign off but expressed suprise at my plan. AIBU to claim this? Feel a bit gutted my effort to show I am committed to being flexible has somewhat backfired!

OP posts:

MoaningMingeWhingesAgain · 17/07/2013 14:41

Why would your work pay extra to cover your childcare?

Unless it was an exceptional circumstance and they had offered to in writing, then childcare is your personal/family expense that you can use your salary for, surely?

Are you getting paid for an extra day/day in lieu or just having to suck it up?

sleeplessbunny · 17/07/2013 14:42

were you paid overtime for the extra day? That would be the proper way of covering your costs IMHO, then no need for expense claims.
If overtime isn't available then I would go for a day off in lieu (you could bank it and use it next time a DC is ill for e.g.)
The expenses arrangement does seem a bit unusual to me, but not U. Next time agree it with the person who signs the form beforehand. But it sounds like you're not out of pocket so all OK, I would just forget about it and move on.

rubyslippers · 17/07/2013 14:42

i don't think as a one off it's an unreasonable expense to claim for especially as it is not one of your regular working days

Kiriwawa · 17/07/2013 14:43

No you can't claim childcare expenses - they're your problem, not your employers.

Sorry, I know that seems unfair but you could be working 4 days a week for any number of reasons. And it sets a really dodgy precedent for the employers.

I know it sucks

rubyslippers · 17/07/2013 14:43

work should consider paying because the meeting was arranged when it wasn't the OP's regular working day

of course they don't have to approve it

Original poster

BobbinUp · 17/07/2013 14:45

No I'm not being paid for extra hours. We pay for our childcare out of my salary for the four days I am contracted. This was an extra day which I wasn't paid for but though would be appreciated. Client pays company for my time though..

OP posts:

Kiriwawa · 17/07/2013 14:49

Meetings are always going to be arranged on days when the OP can't go - that's a fact of life in professional services firms if you work part time. You work around the client and the partner's priorities and commitments, not the manager's.

So you either have to become very hard-nosed at saying no, you work 4 days (and remember that's a 20% drop in all your take home - holidays, pensions contributions, as well as salary) or you scrabble around to get there and take the hit.

I would advise you BobbinUp to start becoming a bit more hard-nosed. Otherwise you'll be checking your emails/answering your phone and before you know it, you'll be working 4.5 days and only getting paid 4 ...

Mandy21 · 17/07/2013 14:53

I'm in professional services too and work 3 days per week. I have a fixed 3 day nursery place for my little one. I can request an extra day at nursery on an ad-hoc basis (and pay for it) but I can't swap days. I have quite regularly worked an extra day but I have never used an extra day at nursery ? my H has always taken a day off. I have then "banked" a day in lieu. That is the only way my firm would proceed, I certainly wouldn't get sign off here for childcare costs.

In your position, I think you probably should have explained the position to your director before agreeing to go ? yes you could do it (and were more than willing to do it) but there would be some nominal childcare expenses associated with it. He could then have taken the decision as to whether it was important enough for you to attend.

gintastic · 17/07/2013 14:55

I have always claimed overtime instead and paid the childcare from this. I do work in a professional career, and sometimes it's unavoidable. I do do the odd hour here and there for free, but for a whole extra day I would expect either childcare paid or overtime. I simply can't afford it any other way.

breatheslowly · 17/07/2013 15:00

It would be very unusual to be able to reclaim childcare costs like that, in my experience. The best you might get is a day off in lieu, but that would generally be a day for which you are already paying childcare, so not a great advantage. I think Kiriwawa is right. I think that women often look for alternative, non-client-facing roles when they have children. I know it doesn't have to be women/mothers not men/fathers, but that is mostly the way it goes.

Snowgirl1 · 17/07/2013 15:14

If a part-time employee worked additional hours I'd either expect to pay them for the hours worked or for them to take time-off in lieu for the hours worked. I wouldn't expect to pay their childcare costs. I'm not even sure that the HMRC would view this as a valid business expense - I'm a bit surprised your finance team allow it to go through as a business expense.

Original poster

BobbinUp · 17/07/2013 15:29

snowgirl they seemed to think because it was under £100 it was ok. We dont have overtime for fee earners as many of my colleagues work up to 70 hour weeks. I am more limited because of home demands at present and accept that has a major impact on my career for now. I thought it was positive to attend "out of hours" as its a project I am significant to and a rare occurrance. My DH cant take a day off so that I can work extra tho!! Also a day swap doesnt release any cost for childcare so no benefit to me whatsoever. Ihad thought it was perfect common sense but it looks like it was the wrong decision to make though and just increases my line managers frustration. I def dont want to pay for cover as get 80% FTE of everything as kiri states. I have worked for this firm for 13 years though and used to do a great job! Its hard feeling like such a disappointment nowadays!

Thanks all for your comments.. tomorrows another day!

OP posts:

wimblehorse · 17/07/2013 16:11

I have done this before & my company agreed to reimburse additional childcare costs. That was cheaper for them than paying me overtime & I couldn't/wouldn't have been able to take the hit financially of working the extra day without it but wanted to go the extra step if possible.
If they won't pay/pay overtime I think you will have to be hardnosed about refusing work on non-work days.
If they won't be flexible with you...

breatheslowly · 17/07/2013 16:24

It is really is disappointing, isn't it. I'm please not to be fee earning any more as I get paid the same to just work my hours. The progression won't be the same but I was never going to be willing to put in the hours to get to the top anyway.

Emsmaman · 17/07/2013 16:57

Considering that in places I have worked in the City, expenses with regards to personal holidays being cancelled at the last minute or changed due to work deadlines are reimbursed (for Employee & family), I would have thought it would be acceptable.

Mandy21 · 17/07/2013 17:02

Why can't your H take a day off to cover the childcare?

Original poster

BobbinUp · 17/07/2013 17:21

Mandy can't isnt actually the right word, wouldnt is more likely and to be honest why should he have to use a days leave so that I can go to a client meeting where my company would charge the client for my attendance at my fee earning rate but I wont be paid anything myself? Like Emsmaman expenses being incurred isn't unusual. I just (wrongly) assumed it would be ok and to be honest they arent refusing to pay it (which I am grateful for) but I didnt think it would be taken this way. My childcare cost less than my train journey to the meeting which was expenses!! Definitely lesson learnt for the future.

OP posts:

Mandy21 · 17/07/2013 17:39

I agree that it doesn't seem sensible for your DH to take leave ordinarily but if the point is (as a one-off) to show your willingness, be keen, flexible etc, then 1 day to support his wife in her career (given that it sounds like ? as mine has ? it has taken a bit of a nose dive since children!) isn't too much to ask! I think agreeing to do the meeting, then charging your childcare costs and having to go through the hoops of getting it signed off probably negates the benefit of going to the meeting in the 1st place! Don't get me wrong, I don't think its fair, the whole approach to childcare / flexibility / promotion for women unless you work FT is a bit of a joke.

Mandy21 · 17/07/2013 17:41

Emsmaman I'm guessing that with a day's childcare costing £36, the OP isn't in the City !

lborolass · 17/07/2013 17:50

I really can't decide whether you are being unreasonable, it's a difficult call as you need to weigh up your future career against the immediate cost of £36.

On balance as you're not being paid for the extra day it's probably only fair that your employer at least makes sure you're not out of pocket.

I wouldn't expect my DH to take a day off in this situation, I agree with you on that. I think it is too much to ask, what if he's self employed and would lose work/money/let down his clients or cause problems in his own workplace. Tbh I wouldn't be able to just take a day off if the situation was reversed.

Madamecastafiore · 17/07/2013 17:53

You should have taken the day swap as I really don't think your childcare is your employers responsibility. If you were paid for the day your childcare costs should come out of that rather than be expecting your employers to pay.

gintastic · 17/07/2013 18:02

But childminders and nurseries often don't allow day swaps. You have your days - extras are extra.

If my employer wanted me to work a Monday during the holidays (not unfeasible) it would cost me in the region of £120 in childcare. Much as I would love to advance my career, I can't afford £120. Perhaps as a one off, but if you do it once, they will always be asking. As an aside, my day rate minus petrol and £120 of childcare leaves me with a small loss anyway, but I can stomach a small loss. £120 is just not possible.

PastaBeeandCheese · 17/07/2013 18:05

My employers wouldn't agree to this either. I've had to go in on the odd day that I don't work (no overtime either) and wouldn't expect them to pay DD's nursery fees even though I understand your pov.

They aren't forcing me to be there. I go in because I want to do a good job.

BTW, DH has occasionally taken a day off to support me in my return to work. I think that's fair enough given my work had the burden of my maternity leave to cover.

fairylightsinthespring · 17/07/2013 18:10

I teach 3 days a week and they organised some compulsory INSET for a day I don't work. I talked to the HR person about it as I said it was unreasonable for me to be out of pocket to do this (they weren't going to pay me to come in). In the end they paid me for the day rather than paying the childcare direct. However it is arranged I think it is unreasonable to expect an employee to come in on a day that is not their normal one effectively for free or actually costing them.

VivClicquot · 17/07/2013 18:28

I can understand why you would try, but I can also understand how it might not get signed off. I also work for a large professional services firm and also work Monday to Thursday. There have been a couple of occasions where I have had to work on a Friday and when this has arisen, I've had two options: take a day in lieu, or put in a written request to be paid. I've done both, depending on the circumstances but have never expensed the extra day in nursery that it has occasionally required.

As an aside, however, my firm does offer a free emergency child care service to all staff, for up to five days a year - so, if my childcare provider let me down at very short notice or if I had to work on a Friday and really really couldn't get any care at all, then work would provide me with an approved agency childminder for the day, free of charge. The downside, of course, being that this person would be a stranger to my children so potentially more problematic for the kids.

Flip

1 2