To think that relaxing the ratios on after school care is sensible

[ReallyTired]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23328459

I think there is a lot of sense in relaxing the ratios for school aged children. However I do feel there needs to be at least one qualified person running the club. (Not necessarily NVQ level 3 childcare, but possibly a higher level teaching assistant)

Children who are school aged do not need a ratio of 1 to 8. It is madness that two TAs can took after and educate a class of 30 for a day, but the same two people cannot baby sit more than 16 children for more than two hours.

I feel that wrap around care and extended schools should be inspected as part of a general OFSTED of a school.

Well I wouldn't want to be that person, not in this culture of 'no accidents' and 'always someone's fault'. Children do not always behave, why on earth would fewer adults be a good thing? At school, during the day, there are suppose systems in place to assist any member of staff with anything that may arise. Although the TAs might be alone in the classroom, they are not alone in the school. After school care is completely different, children are tired and not expecting to follow the same rules that apply in the classroom, even though they should.

And of course schools should be judged by Ofsted on those things, being a babysitting service IS just important as teaching all of subjects taught in a school. I know, why not get rid of parental responsibility entirely and make the teachers responsible? Extended learning opportunities are already judged by Ofsted.

YABU.

I am paying £24 a day for holiday club for ds3 this summer. I do not want the person looking after him to be looking after more than eight other children! I also want then to be qualified.

" Although the TAs might be alone in the classroom, they are not alone in the school. After school care is completely different, children are tired and not expecting to follow the same rules that apply in the classroom, even though they should. "

School staff do not stop work at 3.30pm. In all the schools I have worked at there has generally been someone one around until about 5pm at least.

My children's school had five adults looking after 60 year 4s on a residental for four days. I think the ratio of 1 to 8 can easily be increased.

" I know, why not get rid of parental responsibility entirely and make the teachers responsible? Extended learning opportunities are already judged by Ofsted. "

So only teachers are allowed to have children and a career. No one is suggesting that teachers run the after school club. Many schools already have excellent provision, including my children's school. The after school club is a good source of revenue for the school.

Our after school club is staffed by a mixture of TAs( with childcare qualifications) and dinner ladies. It can take up to 40 children and its pretty guarenteed that your child gets a place if you give a week's notice. If the after school club is busy then they employ more dinner ladies.

The red tape invovled in setting up an after school is unbelievable. Our school won't take reception children because the staff do not want to have to follow the EYFS. (Frankly who can blame them!)

I think this is insanity tbh. I care for school aged children (7-13yrs) and currently work with a ratio of 1 to 8. Most days there are 2 members of staff and between 15-18 children. I cant believe anyone would be happy with that amount of children on their own!

Its all well and good comparing it to a class situation, but in reality 32 kids in a classroom, with specified seats and set work to do, is nowhere near the same as 18 children who are out of school, all wanting to do different things, and all needing different levels of attention. You would spend your time merely supervising rather than interacting. Constantly head counting and looking all over the place.

Also, what if something were to happen to this single member of staff? Fainting/injury/vomiting? Who would supervise the children then? On a simpler level, what if i need a piss? Do i just leave 18 children unsupervised for 5 mins and hope for the best?
If a child is hurt and needs attention/first aid, who watches the others?
If a parent wants to have a talk with me, who watches the others?

I know im ranting but it seems people constantly want to cut corners on things like this without thinking of the practicalities.

An after school club has to have at least 2 people supervising, but why can those two people not manage more than 16 children.

"Its all well and good comparing it to a class situation, but in reality 32 kids in a classroom, with specified seats and set work to do, is nowhere near the same as 18 children who are out of school, all wanting to do different things, and all needing different levels of attention."

School children are nowhere as needy as 3 year olds. They do not need the same level of attention. At playtime a dinner lady supervises far more than 30 children. In a typical after school club there are children who vary from the age of 5 to 11. Even if an eleven year old can walk home, most parents do not want a year 6 left on their own for hours.

Its crazy a year 4 child is legally allowed to walk home from school on their own, but posters think that a child of the same age needs 1 to 8 supervision.

Children do grow up. A school child is far more independent than a little nursery child.

It's too much IMO. At the end of the day they're all tired and just want to mess around with their friends. So yabu.

At DS's after school club they don't all play in the same room, some of them are in the IT suite playing games, others go into the playing field then others will be doing drawing. With several members of staff they can let the children take the lead after a busy day at school. The last thing they all need is to be stuck in one room.

A primary one child can legally walk home from school on their own and some do. It does not mean I would let my child. I think a 1:8 ratio for a 7 year old is perfectly reasonable. I doubt the cost of childcare will drop, just the quality.

Will a childminder be able to take 16 after school children? Good money to be made there!

In my area many after school clubs are over subscribed. There are just simply not enough places. Also children do not stop needing childcare when they reach the age of 8.

Children grow up gradually. My eleven year old should not be left home alone, but he does not need the same level of supervision as a three year old.

I fail to understand why a seven year old is as needy as three year old and needs the same level of supervision unless there are substantial special needs.

"
Will a childminder be able to take 16 after school children?"

i see no reason why TWO childminders could not take on 30 school children with high quality premises and the space. (Ie. a school!)

In a school day supervision varies from 1 to 50 (ie. dinner ladies at lunchtime when all the bullying takes place) 1 to 30 (key stage 2 class) or 1 to 15 (reception). Even school nursery has bigger ratios than one to 8.

At what point do you think that children no longer need a ratio of 1 to 8?

I, for one, am heartened by the new plans to have every school offering realistic wrap around care for children. As a child I was left for lengthly periods of time with my two older brothers and it was awful, simply awful.

I remember going to youth clubs with say 30 other children and there being a couple of top year prefects and 2 or 3 staff. It worked really well and to be honest with the right activities and organisation, there is no reason why 30 children could not be looked after by 2/3 adults.

Say school finishes at 3.30pm, you have time to get settled and in the room where the club takes place, snack at 4 until half past and then an activity or homework going on until 5 when most of the children will be picked up and similar for the next hour until 6.

I agree there needs to be contingency plans in case something goes wrong or whatever, but that would just mean an extra teacher or two being in the school working somewhere until 6pm when the club finished.

Its a great idea, they should get people to do a similar course to the six week course that childminders do and offer it as a good way to make a little bit of money for some SAHP and they would only have to charge the parents a token amount.