To think that Jamie Oliver is being ideological.

[Darkesteyes]

This is probably old but Psychologies tweeted it and im quite disappointed in them for phrasing it in the inflammatory way that they did.
Its an article on how young people expect too much and people like Jamie Oliver has said that not enough young people are prepared to graft and do work experience and internships .
All very well for him to say but a lot of young people cant afford to work for no wages. A lot of them may have parents who have been hit by the economic crisis and/or on low wages or have a disabled parent at home.

www.psychologies.co.uk/work/are-the-youth-of-today-too-lazy-to-work.html

He was also willing to accept low pay but I thought he was going to be hard pressed to live in London on £13,000 and that we would have to subsidise him. He has at least started on a realistic salary now.

Waffly's response is spot on.

Employers are also out to exploit. Back in my day you got a simple Saturday job- now they get 'and can you do Sundays as well' and 'which evenings can you do?' They have exams - they need to study. DS got one holiday job in a pub simply because he said he wasn't going on holiday and he could work any hours. They want a cheap labour force they can send home when quiet and phone up when busy.
Internships and work experience are , all too often, free labour that leads nowhere.

In sorry exotic - that sounds really tough for your ds. And it makes me wonder whether my experience is based where you live. The employment situation isn't great anywhere but the costs of living in the south seem exorbitant.

There aren't enough jobs, but I don't think that means we can't encourage our kids to put in the hard yards and keep at it. Persistence is something that everyone needs to learn.

I must say that I'm quite impressed with a scheme that has been introduced here. Students can now study an apprenticeship or traineeship alongside their senior high school classes (grade 11 and 12 here). It is undertaken during school time, and usually takes the place of one or two subjects. The young boy across the road took on a carpentry apprenticeship. He went to TAFE (technical college) one day per week, school three days and worked on a building site one day per week and during school holidays (for which he was paid apprentice wages). After two years he walked away with his senior certificate (high school graduation) and began as a third year apprentice (and on third year apprentice wages). I think it's good as it's giving students the opportunity to learn a trade, but also keeps them in school to complete their senior schooling (which will enable them to enter university if they so desire when they are older). It also means that they can complete their very low paid apprenticeship years whilst still at school and are still being supported by their parents. Employers are given incentives for taking on students on this scheme. Within a few years of leaving school he will be in a position that he is fully qualified and able to set up his own business if he so desires. We also have a workplace based traineeship scheme, where the government will subsidy employers for the cost of putting staff through on the job traineeships (retail, administration, etc). It means the young person is working, earning but also learning.

I really think schemes like this are something that should be encouraged. We need to get creative about developing opportunities for people, so that there are options if you want to work hard.

Luckily he got where he wanted to be- but 13 long months it took- which is why I am a bit sensitive about privileged people like Jamie Oliver spouting rubbish!
It is a huge disadvantage if you live in a rural location.
He even thought about changing to cooking as a career but he was too old to be taken on as an apprentice- he only looked into it superficially but there appeared to be no government funding after 21yrs- if he had wanted to do it then it should have been from school.

Sadly there are done people who do not take opportunities or want to do so.

I am involved with a small company who work with NEETs and many simply won't do things they deem as below them, things many of us would have done when first starting out would have done.

That's not fiction. That's not having a go at people who have no money. It's simply what is happening.

Apprenticeships are the way to go.
DS2 had a very good apprenticeship but they are like gold dust! He got a college place but couldn't get an employer - mid August and he still didn't have an employer and the only advice was to go back to school and do A'levels. He got an employer 2weeks before the college course started - after over 100 letters. He was lucky- there was then an economic downturn and his firm didn't take on any apprentices for about 3years.

It is also very difficult for school leavers to get jobs because they are all staffed by graduates!!

Jamie isn't a posh boy or priveleged. He worked very hard to get where he is - yes he was lucky too but that doesn't mean he can't comment. His 15 restaurants are meant to help disadvantaged kids get skills yet many of them drop out. This is his experience of employing young people. I can see why he would get disheartened.
I don't know what ideological means in this sense.

Youth Unemployment is a massive problem in the UK. why should companies set 18 year olds on when they can set a 21 yr old graduate on for the same money?

Thats where a lot of young people leaving school/college will struggle now and moving forwards.

However the more it is talked about, the more we say 'young people can't get jobs/can't get jobs they want to do/can't get jobs that aren't beneath them' the more we talk our young people into believing it.

A lot of the problems start at school/college where kids are told by parents and teachers and advisers 'you can be anything you want to be'. So lots of kids work towards degrees in Media Studies, Travel and Tourism, Law degrees. Whilst those who don't want to go to uni toddle off and do a Hair and Beauty Course, or a Childcare Course, or a Mechanics course.

In reality we have a massive amount of young people who could change your oil or do you a nice bob and colour, whilst in particular the building trade is struggling, even now when its just slowly starting to pick up, for young people who can learn a trade.

We run a small construction company. My DP would love a 'young lad' to set on and develop and train. We advertised offering way over the going rate for an apprentice. No one who applied had the relevant CSCS card, no one had any type of basic education in any kind of construction despite our local college offering a range of courses, none of the applicants had safety boots, a tape measure or a pouch and none were willing to pay a portion of their first weeks wages towards them if we bought them for them.

By the time we'd taken into consideration NI payments, sick pay, holiday pay plus their wages, plus paid for them to go on the safety course, plus got them their basic safety gear it would have cost us to set someone on, especially in the first 6 months as they would have needed 1 to 1 training and support just to keep them safe on site.

Had we had applicants from young people who had at least done a college or vocational qualification in the trade they would have had a working knowledge of site safety, their basic site safety training and their basic gear.

It's hard dirty work in the building trade and you do start at the bottom and work your way up. No one dreams at school of 5am starts, 10 hour shifts and labouring for someone else for 2 years before you are allowed to even think about actually building something. But thats how it is in the industry. Now DP is on very good money. We have our own small company and managed to keep going through the worst of things finacially over the last couple of years and keep 4 men in full time work. BUT that is only because DP has a good reputation as being a bloody hard worker. He's just worked 13 days on the bounce and has another 6 day week this week. Lots of the young people we interviewed were more concerned with weekends off and how many holidays they got.

We can't afford to carry someone and many employers will feel the same in this day and age. My advice to any 13/14 year old wondering about carers would be to look at where the gaps are in the market. The building industry is just on example. There is and will be a massive shortage of skilled tradesmen and women. It might be little Michaels dream to be an architect one day but 3/4 years at uni to qualify won't mean jack if there are no tradesmen to put his designs into reality.

"genuine compassion is based on a clear acceptance or recognition that others, like oneself, want happiness and have the right to overcome suffering. On that basis, one develops cOncern about the welfare of others, irrespective of one's attitude to oneself. That is compassion."
The Dalai Lama

In other words - don't be judgey about people buying one-pound burgers.

And wot Waffley sed.

But frouby how do you know at 13 or 14 where there is a gap in the market or which industries are doing well/swamped with applicants/less popular? Especially if those aren't your parent's trades or your parents are out of work. It would be great if all young people could find suitable places to work but in my experience the school support was limited to helping you work out which area you wanted to work in (turned out totally different to what I wanted to do once I'd tried it) and then pointing you towards courses, not giving any advice on how to actually seek information on the industry itself.

When I said that Jamie Oliver was 'privileged' I merely meant that he was speaking from a privileged position now.
Career advice is sadly lacking in UK.
Those at school have no idea of the job situation.
I was talking to a 15yr old on work experience last week- only general chat because she happened to be with me for 30 mins- she was quite unrealistic but I didn't think it my place to tell her so.
Her father had started work at 15yrs and worked his way right up.

I agree Yoni. Schools, careers advisers and parents need to help young people make informed decisions as to what to work towards to give them the best chances of getting work in the future.

You can't make a child choose a course they will hate, but you can help steer them away over subscribed courses with few real career opportunities once qualified.

And before a young person commits to a particular course try and speak to a variety of people at different stages of their careers in that industry to get s real idea of what is involved in the early part of their career and how it could progress. Work experience where at all possible is invaluable imo.

I agree that there aren't enough jobs but some unemployed people do not want a job.

My 17 yo nephew has had a job since he was 15 1/2 in the industry he wants to work in (retail) and has had 3 jobs (sometimes overlapping). Whilst studying at sixth form.

His dad (my DB) has been out of work that whole time (except for the odd days cash in hand work). It he really wanted to work he could have found something but he's happy not to.

And that's not me blaming the poor, just real life examples of where there's a will, there's a way.

I do think that there is starting to become a shift in the traditional career paths, and it should be encouraged. I'm noticing most new teachers are more mature, having had a variety of different jobs and careers whilst completing their degree at night. Or in Froubylou's example above of Mikey wanting to be an architect. Rather than going straight to university after leaving school, he might go and do a building apprenticeship and work on the tools for eight years while completing his degree in architecture at night. He'll not only be able to support himself, he'll have years of hands on experience in the industry, which will make him more attractive to employers.

Jamie is being ideological. And he was a middle class privileged guy when he started.

I volunteer with young people, mainly boys, in a deprived area up north. Most of these wonderful teens are not white. I can tell you now that despite begging practically every business in the city to take on one of the teens for work experience (free unpaid work!), not one of the teens has secured a place. Yes Jamie waltzes through 'deprived' towns and cities spouting his crap, but he really really has no idea about the harsh realities faced by all young people these days. And the worst group by far are young people who live in poor areas, whose schooling is poor quality, who have disrupted family lives and spend their lives fighting poverty and prejudice.

Like others here I am absolutely suck to death of people like JO bashing the poor. I just can't stand him and his smug face.

"Jamie isn't a posh boy or priveleged. He worked very hard to get where he is - yes he was lucky too but that doesn't mean he can't comment."

That. One can blame luck for not making your millions by the time one is 40, but getting a job is not a matter of luck but a matter of getting off that sofa.

His parents own a gastropub in Essex. I'd call that posh.

I remember watching Jamie's Kitchen when he was trying to launch his restaurant and the attitude of some of the kids on it irritated me - I thought he bent over backwards for them.

I don't like the snidey comments about his education, either. Doesn't he have learning difficulties? Those few GCSEs are a real achievement for him - or do we need a minimum qualification before we're allowed to have an opinion?

I am a careers adviser ...our service has been cut by 55% and we no longer work in schools and colleges as Gove felt schools should do that (they aren't)

There is very little in the way of independent, unbiased careers advice for all young people. We only work with statemented young people, those in care, care leavers, the unemployed and a few more tiny select groups.

I do my job because I like young people and I like supporting them and helping them achieve ...young people do want to work and they do have ambition but options are increasingly limited

His parents didn't own a gastropub - i think they ran a pub - that's not 'posh'

Jamie is one of the few powerful people out there who takes a risk and tries to make a difference. I think it's better than doing nothing.

When I read Mumsnet I am aware of the massive differences there are nationally. I accept what you are saying baking novice and I can see why his comments irk you. Here in south east, there are jobs. Many of my Polish and Bulgarian friends have had no problems in finding work and doing well - yet many of the young locals, (my wider family included) don't fancy working. I think those are the people Jamie is targeting. I can see that wouldn't apply to different areas.

I think Jamie Oliver is great, he's passionate about what he does, including giving countless opportunities to disadvantaged youngsters.

Some of the bashing on here about him is horrible and so personal.

I think the silent majority would agree.

They own the pub and he went to private school.

Jamie needs to remember he has had immense advantages in life. Yes, he works hard but so do lots and lots of people who haven't been as well rewarded.

I actually think it is rather crass to suggest an entire generation are works work shy, especially coming from a multi-millionaire.

I think people in general don't do as much physical work as was the norm in the 50s and 60s, not through laziness, but because everything is motorized.
My DBs used to mow the lawn with a hand mower, lop branches off trees with a saw, rebuild their bikes or repair punctures, we swept and weeded the drive. You just don't see people outside with a broom in their hands nowadays. It was a lesson in doing the boring jobs and finding reward, grateful parents, afterwards.

Why don't shopkeepers sweep in front of their shops, or house dwellers sweep the pavement - oh, of course we'd rather pay the council to do it every 6 months.