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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be fed up with the nurse-bashing going on here this weekend

164 replies

fledtoscotland · 14/07/2013 23:25

Just that really.

Most of us are hard working people who do our best to remember everyone's name and not eat kettle chips when we should have a broom up our arses to ensure we don't slack

I just want to be treated with respect as I do my patients and do my job.

OP posts:
Dackyduddles · 15/07/2013 10:15

I am not and not do I find mn anti nurse. I do find and am myself anti the self pitying angles or martyrdom comments of how angelic nurses are. It's a difficult job. Made more so by governments/idiot managers but discussion on issues seems to always qualify with "but x nurse was marvellous" as a sop to individuals. There is rarely an issue with individuals. It's the collective, generally tied up in some red tape idiocy that seems to be where issues happen/can be seen.

If we could all agree that individual nurses are wonderful and move on to discussing actual collective issues it would be great.

larrygrylls · 15/07/2013 10:24

"Nurses are brilliant and anyone who says they aren't (because of a couple of bad 'uns) is a prize twat and should be forced to go private."

I and most of my family would choose to go private most of the time anyway. We still pay our taxes towards the NHS, though.

Some nurses are brilliant, others I would not trust to "nurse" my cat. The profession as a whole has certainly deteriorated since it became a pseudo graduate one. And the condescending way that most nurses treat old people (with some honourable exceptions) has been brought home to me since my mother has become elderly and unwell. Again she chooses to go private when she can but often there is not that option and, after 75 years of paying taxes and being fiercely independent, she should not have to beg for help to go to the loo or suffer being addressed by her first name without any invitation.

My wife should not have had to turn off a bleeping monitor when staying in hospital with our then 5 week old son because no one had come to investigate for over an hour (and she could see that our son was actually breathing fine at that point).

Some areas of the NHS are brilliant. Some nurses are brilliant. On the whole, however, there is a culture of superiority and inability to receive and act on constructive criticism. The recent scandals and many which will soon be unearthed are testament to this. The NHS and all within it need to realise that they are far from perfect.

HeffalumpTheFlump · 15/07/2013 11:13

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread but wanted to say I can't thank nurses enough. I've seen it from both sides, as I was training to become a nurse until I became too unwell to continue the course.

Most recently nurses have been the ones to look after my DH for me when he was really poorly in hospital. Especially when he was on SAU and terrified, they took the time to explain to him and me what was happening and made sure he was as comfortable as possible.

When the doctors discharged him too early it was down to me to care for him and I did my best, but he was so poorly he ended up back in hospital. The nurses hadn't wanted him to leave in the first place. I can't thank them enough for their time and effort caring for him at a time when he was so poorly and we were really scared.

The way they understood that DH is my world and looked after me too means everything. The nurse who found me a sandwich at 2am because I'm pregnant and I looked pale apparently, I would love to give a hug! And I can't explain what it meant that they were flexible about the visiting hours because they didn't think worrying about each other was doing either of us any good!

With all that nurses have to do, and the weight of the responsibilities on their shoulders, the amount of care and compassion they showed us astounds me. I can't thank nurses enough.

50shadesofmeh · 15/07/2013 11:59

I agree OP it makes me so hard , I try so hard to deliver good care in very difficult circumstances and adverse attitudes towards us. I work full time in a receiving ward I have 3 kids i have to leave at home and do 13 hour shifts where I barely sit down some days and don't get to urinate for hours on end never mind eat some kettle chips.
All on the same wages as a bus driver .

Lottapianos · 15/07/2013 12:05

'Some nurses are brilliant. On the whole, however, there is a culture of superiority and inability to receive and act on constructive criticism'

I agree with this larrygrylls. My mother is a nurse and the second sentence describes her perfectly! I have done some training for nurses (health visitors) in the past and while the majority were lovely and enthusiastic, there were a few who were openly hostile to any discussions about recent research or any suggestion that they make changes to their practice. One actually said that she 'doesn't like research because it just makes us change what we have been doing for years'! Shock Some had a shocking lack of compassion for vulnerable people they would have been working with, like mums with PND or teen parents.

Of course there are great practitioners in every profession but it is certainly worth discussing negative experiences just as much as the positive ones.

'The NHS and all within it need to realise that they are far from perfect'

I'm an NHS worker myself and sadly I have to agree with this too. There are so many reasons why this is true Sad

grumpyoldbat · 15/07/2013 12:21

That comment about research is awful. That's the best kind of change, providing the research is sound obviously.

The problem can be what some peoples definition of constructive criticism is not the same as mine and some deliver it badly. Eg I had a boss who used to say "you're doing everything wrong" a lot but not once did she ever explain how it should be done.

Lottapianos · 15/07/2013 12:26

grumpy, the other trainer and I were both like Confused. We were talking about the WHO guidance on weaning (not before 6 months), whereas this Health Visitor had some very outdated ideas about how boys are hungrier than girls etc Hmm Shock and wasn't for turning!

That doesn't sound like constructive criticism at all! How did they think that was supposed to motivate you to change? Sounds like she was clueless and was just throwing her weight around - very foolish.

GoshAnneGorilla · 15/07/2013 12:37

"Pseudo-graduate profession".

^ This type of sneering really gets my goat. No one ever complained about Radiography, Physiotherapy, Othoptics and many other allied health professions becoming all graduate, yet for some reason nurses receiving a degree rather then a diploma, makes us uppity and deficient.

The work of nurses has changed hugely. Much of what nurses do now, used to be done by doctors. Before anyone chimes in, this role change is not because nurses are above themselves or doing basic care, but because patients are much sicker now and treatments are far more intense and technological.

Once upon a time, Dr's used to give I.V medication. Now nurses will have patients on a whole spectrum of IV meds, in a variety of routes, some of which require being scruubed to administer, it takes two nurses to prepare and administer the medication... can you see how this time consuming? I also presume you would quite like the nurse to know about the medication they give, rather then saying "Doctors do the prescribing, so I don't need to worry my little head about it".

What has not helped was getting rid of enrolled nurses and auxiliary nurses, who were actually trained in favour of health care assistants who may have hugely variable levels of training (if any) and are often taking on far more responsibility then they should, because they are viewed as cheap labour.

FYI there has always been an academic component to nurse training, just that the study used to take place in hospital, instead of university. So the idea that pre Project 2000 nurse training was 100% practical is a myth.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen · 15/07/2013 12:55

yet for some reason nurses receiving a degree rather then a diploma, makes us uppity and deficient.

^^

Nurses are female. I'll get flamed as a paranoid feminist but I honestly think this was the opening for the public to start the systematic bashing of your vocation and bring it too it's knees.. And then bash it some more.

Women are saints who don't care how they're perceived by the public. Or how many hours they work. Daring to care about your wage? FFS, who do you think you are? Oh, you need food and the bathroom? Selfish. I may be NIL.

Duh, did you miss that day of class >sarcastic eyeroll<

Yeah, maybe I am just a paranoid feminist but I can't help wondering why whenever there is a severe economic crisis in the Western world budgets are cut from female dominated workplaces, such as nursing or teaching. Then the public worries about how they/their kids are being treated instead of the crux of the issue. (Justifiably, but necessarily because of the cuts the strain on these professions causes many of the issues people complain about.)

Not denying there are lousy nurses. Just like there are lousy teachers, firemen, postal workers, accountants etc etc... There will always be lousy people. Unfortunately sometimes a lousy person is someone you need contact with.

ilovechips · 15/07/2013 12:57

Larrygrylls - as you dismiss "most nurses" as condescending to the elderly, can we assume you have met every single nurse working with the elderly, in order that you feel able to make that statement? No, of course you haven't. It may well be that most of the nurses you have met you find condescending, and that is worrying and sad. But please don't judge everyone in the same way.

Sirzy · 15/07/2013 12:58

It may not have been 100% practical, but it was much more practical and hands on and IMO the current system doesn't provide students with enough time on the ward and in some ways seems to give nurses some "attitude"

My dad qualified in the 70s as a nurse and worked until recently and hated the changes to the way nurses were trained - he had students who refused to do basic things like helping change a soiled patient because "we don't do that" or "that's what HCAs are for" and it is that type of attitude which is wrong and training needs to go back to basics.

ditavonteesed · 15/07/2013 13:07

see I dont see that, I am a HCA ( well actually clinical support worker if we are going to get uppity Wink) the students we have are always first to jump in and help me with washes and beds and meals.

Lottapianos · 15/07/2013 13:10

'Yeah, maybe I am just a paranoid feminist but I can't help wondering why whenever there is a severe economic crisis in the Western world budgets are cut from female dominated workplaces, such as nursing or teaching.'

There's nothing wrong with being a feminist and you're certainly not paranoid Smile This is why the 'angels' thing really winds me up. Can you imagine firefighters (who are mostly male) being described in the same way?!

ilovechips · 15/07/2013 13:12

I've never met a student nurse who outright refused to help with essential care because it was beneath them.

I'm going to stop reading this thread just like I did with the others, because once again it's descended into sweeping generalisations with little balanced argument.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen · 15/07/2013 13:14

Firemen are heroes though Lotta! They actually deserve to be paid!

Ugh. Can't believe I typed that. Sadly I know people with this view. :(

I wonder if Florence Nightingale would be impressed she's used as an example to shame and silence feminist nurses? Wink

Lottapianos · 15/07/2013 13:21

Oh yes - how could I forget those brave heroes (ditto members of armed forces)! Or maybe just, y'know, flawed human beings, some of whom do a great job, some of whom do a crap job, just like people in all jobs!

The absolute fawning over the armed forces and firefighters in certain sections of the media DM and LBC radio makes me heave Hmm

grumpyoldbat · 15/07/2013 13:26

lotta you're right, not constructive at but she claimed it was. Her replacement was much better, we made a lot of procedural changes under the next boss.

Freudianslap · 15/07/2013 13:32

There's quite a lot of doctor bashing going on at the moment too .....

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen · 15/07/2013 13:34

Same Lotta

Interestingly, the media is quiet as a church mouse when a member of the army molests, or a member of the army is molested.

Luckily I'm not someone who assumes everyone of a vocation (I assume log time service in the army for example would be a vocation mainly?) Are all bad people.

When even a poster on here (Larry) has tarred all of a mainly female vocation with a brush.

I judge on the person, not the job. Do I think some nurses are knobs? Yes. Do I think the profession needs reforming (or back-forming?) HELL YES! Doesn't make me assume because I've met many nurses who are horrid (and I have) makes 'most' or all of the profession horrid.

Strange how if I were to say 'I think the army is a sexist organisation' I'd be jumped on. Rightfully so OFC, I'm sure most army members are lovely. But there is sexism that needs to be actually, not just in the press handled. I cannot imagine anyone justifying a fireman's need to eat after a fire, even though there may soon be another. But if there's a tragic death on a ward and then another crash? Get on with is you lazy nurses!

^^

It's that attitude that pisses me right off.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen · 15/07/2013 13:37

Freudian where? I'll happily defend doctors too. I've only seen the ridiculous:

'GP wouldn't give DD pimple cream in an emergency appointment, what a bitch' post. Are there others? Other profession on their knees that deserves defending (unless of course OP said: Doctor told me I was going to die: AIBU or something)

Mind posting (or PMing) links? Stereotyping a whole profession/gender/etc is a huge, huge bugbear.

Freudianslap · 15/07/2013 13:39

From what I have read over the last week we are all lazy, rude, money grabbing egotists.

Oh and as a Psychiatry doc I'm also a bit of a charlatan too apparently.

I just wish people would give all of us NHS workers a break, the vast majority of us are working hard within a system that's struggling. Yes there are bad apples but there are in every profession, but there are also some really dedicated hardworking people who don't get the credit they deserve. Maybe I'm incredibly lucky but I work on a cohesive, patient centred ward and most days I am proud of the work we (as a team) do.

End of rant.

GoshAnneGorilla · 15/07/2013 13:45

Tbf, when fireman decided to strike for more pay there was lots of sniping about them all having second jobs anyway.

Special agent - I think there is a huge, huge amount of misogyny about the way nurses are discussed, but thought my post was long enough.

As for students not doing basic care, I always got stuck in, as did my fellow students. However considering students are meant to be supernumerary, there are still far too many placements where students are used as cheap labour and will doing be doing HCA work all shift, every shift.

This is exploitation and means the student is missing out on learning things they need to know post qualifying. Also, most students have HCA experience from prior to their training anyway and many work as HCA's throughout training too.

Dackyduddles · 15/07/2013 13:45

Ill happily defend a workers right to fair breaks, food, treatment by their employer. Ill do that if you are a banker or cleaner or any role.

I still don't get why it seems we have to descend into clarifying how wonderful nurses are though. That's irrelevant, surely?

Freudianslap · 15/07/2013 13:46

special - sorry can't post links as I am using my iPad and trying to do links seems to send it into meltdown!

There's been a couple, some very negative comments on the acne post (although to be fair lots of very supportive posts too), and then in other sections - stuff about obs and gynae docs not knowing what they are doing, numerous mental health threads about the new DSM 5....

GoshAnneGorilla · 15/07/2013 13:48

Freudian - Agree. I think Jeremy *unit's comments about GP's recently are particularly outrageous and those working in the MH field rarely receive credit for the work they do.