To think there is not enough clear advice on feeding children well

[lecce]

I think we have developed 'a situation' with snacks, especially where ds2 (4yo) is concerned. He is driving me insane with his constant whine of 'I'm hungry,' and 'what can I have then?' It is not unusual for him to be snacking all day and not eating well at mealtimes. However, what makes me doubt myself is that even on days when he does eat well at mealtimes, he will still be asking for food not much later. So, I assume he is hungry and increase his portion sizes. Then the next day, this leads to even more wasted food.

His snacks are not junk food - mainly fruit, breadsticks, oatcakes, other plainish crackers with peanut butter or hummus. He is a little chubby in the face and arms but still in 3yo clothes and naked you can see his ribs.

To further complicate matters, if his elder brother (6) sees him getting a snack, he invariably asks for one too. This makes me think he's eating when he's not really hungry as he's not instigating it, but then he, after going through a slightly chubby time about 18 months ago, is very skinny and looks a if he's been stretched.

So, I'm feeling pretty clueless and very stressed with all the constant whinging for food. Is it normal to be constantly snacking? What portion sizes should dc of these ages be having? I have had a google, but can't find anything. All I can find is NHS stuff about not giving them too much, but no one seems to be quoting figures about how much they should be eating.

I am annoyed because about 2 years ago, ds1 was weighed and measured at school and declared to be just into the 'obese' category. At the time I posted on here about how useless the accompanying leaflet was as it was full of stuff about limiting sugary/fatty snacks, not having squash, not sitting on arses all day watching TV. We're not perfect but none of it applied to us. I basically worried for 6 months, had him re-weighed and he had grown taller and no heavier, so was out of the 'danger zone'.

However, now I feel like I have lost my way with feeding the dc and, looking for advice, there isn't any. I know snacks shouldn't be junk, but how much 'non-junk' is too much?

nurseries don't always,imo,get it right....how can a constant drip drip of fruit be good for kids? how is that good for teeth,its sugar after all

3 meals a day, with a snack in the morning and snack in the afternoon. I think children soon learn what they will get and when. The one I childmind for is allowed what ever, whenever at home, but she knows with me she won't get anything until snack/meal time so she doesn't ask. Maybe sounds harsh, but in the olden days people had far less to eat and they got through it. (Although I generally hate it when people say it never did us any harm, but this seems to be one of those situations that actually it didn't do them any harm, they were fed far more veg and far less sugar).

It's a habit he's acquired. Just say ,"No"; you're allowed to. He won't starve if he doesn't eat between meals .

I agree with HeySoulSister. As a society, we are constantly eating or thinking about what we are going to eat next and no wonder children pick up on this.

I serve 3 meals a day and occasionally my DCs have cereal or toast before going to bed as well if they ask and I think they might genuinely be hungry rather than just trying to delay bedtime. If they don't eat well at meals, then tough, I don't offer anything else.

They have sweets now and then and I buy a box of fruit once a week which they can help themselves to but when it's gone it's gone. I don't serve or offer snacks routinely and don't think they are necessary. I certainly don't buy breadsticks, yoghurt or babybels or anything like that. I'm not a health freak and my kids are allowed sugary foods and even fizzy drinks sometimes to put it in context.

I think when your DCs ask for snacks, you are well within your right to refuse; it will do them no harm to wait for the next meal.

the main thing is to ensure you and your DH (who is the main carer) being on the same page. If DH is guilty of jazzing up snacks etc, that's not helpful. Both agree to limit snacks to particular things at a certain time of day and hopefully after a few days moaning they'll get the message. Maybe a lot of praise at mealtimes for having a good meal as well?

I am constantly amazed at children who do seem to spend their whole lives saying "I'm hungry" - DNs are like this.....They're not over-weight though. But they have an oral fixation for sure......

Our parents' generation are really quite aghast at the whole snacks business.

It does so depend on the child, though - I tend only to give DD a snack if she asks, or if I know lunch is going to be late for some reason and I can see some grim behaviour heading our way. But, she couldn't give a shit about food, it's a struggle to get her to sit down for any meal, ever. Whereas other children are straight to the table when lunch is announced, and know when it's coming up and ask if it's ready.

Same as adults being into food, or not.

And our parents' generation were the ones told to rigidly feed their babies on a strict 4 hour schedule, and to always clear your plate, so I wouldn't be taking too much notice of their views on food . . .

You don't need "targeted advice" on food - you need to learn how to be a parent.

"Eating sensibly" is not rocket science.

If you are happy that you serve enough at mealtimes (and you seem to have it about right if they are clearing plates, but then leaving some if you serve larger portions) then this might work for you.....
I always opted for allowing free snacking from the fruit bowl (but nowhere else)..... as often as they liked if they had finished their last meal.
If the last meal wasn't finished, then the answer was no (and the fruit bowl went away!)
If fruit snacking was becoming frequent then it was definitely time to increase portion sizes at meals!!

Also, I found serving meals at the table (rather than onto plates, in the kitchen) was the best guide to finding out how much they would like to eat if given free choice to add more to the plate after the first serving.

Why do they even need snacks ?!

Genuinely confused here.

Porridge for breakfast.

Sandwich, fruit and a yoghurt for lunch.

Protein, veg, carbs for dinner.

Grab another banana if really hungry or an apple.

Sorry..I'm missing something. Just stop buying the snacks?! Agree with heysoulsister

well, because little ones have small tummies. Surely 3 meals a day is a societal construct (is that right? sounds good!) rather than what is inheritantly best for young children. So you start of with snacks and then, as they get older, gradually drop them as they are more able to get through the day without snacks.

so they have smaller portions at mealtimes. But is having 3 meals a day something that is designed with small children in mind? I don't think so. Probably 6 very small meals would be better, but for most adults that's not workable, so the small snack comes into play.

When I was growing up we never had snacks, it just wasn't an option, for me this meant that I wouldn't stop eating when I was full up, I was encouraged to clear my plate and knew that there would be nothing to be had until the next meal so I had better eat up!

I learnt to ignore the messages my stomach was sending me and to override them and enjoy the sensation of being slightly over full, to store up for later.

I think this is one of the reasons I have struggled with my weight all my life and have been overweight for nearly all of it.

I allowed my children healthy snacks within reason, I don't make them clear their plates if they are full, unlike me, at 11 and 13 they are both on the slender side.

Everything in moderation, I don't think it's helpful to stick rigidly to 3 meals a day and sensible and limited snacking won't do anyone any harm.

hmm so up until 5 ish kids are supposed to be self-limiting on their calorie intake. You are NOT supposed to control their intake for them.

It is the 'finish up what's on your plate' and 'you can't still be hungry' attitudes that are breaking our kids ability to judge for themselves when to stop eating.

Don't stop your kid eating and don't force your kid to eat. Don't be ruled by guidelines as the range of normal intake is half as much again.

I don't think you need to put up with constant snacking, waiting a bit won't hurt but be aware that like adults, kids may over eat if they are too hungry before a meal and if that meal is highly calorific.

slow and steady is better than binging....

I have always needed to eat something every couple of hours or I get so grumpy and don't feel well at all . I remember as a child having special dispensation to have glucose sweets in school and I still have to watch what I eat now, and DD seems to be following in my footsteps.

I agree its so hard to know if you're getting it right, but I also have the mantra that fruit/raw veg is unlimited (not that she eats any at moment), and if she doesn't eat what I offer she can't be that hungry.

with younger children it is often hungry = bored and/or habit. ie watching tv is accompanied by food. It may also be a sensory thing, comfort eating but for the chewing rather than filling up. Remember it is bad for teeth to be grazing. Serve a reasonable portion at meals of slow release carbs, a portion of veg is roughly a handful. I think you can even get plates which guide you as to the proportions like this diagram here

Wrt fruit, fruit is fine for teeth, fruit juice is not.

I think morning and afternoon snacks every day sounds like lots. My 3yo usually has one or the other, quite often neither. Her meals aren't that far apart!

I'd say there is far too much advice available. Isn't most of it just common sense? Feed them real food, avoid the processed most of the time, not too much sugary stuff, the odd healthy-ish snack and a few treats.

As I understand it, the same amount of food overall is offered daily, just split into smaller meals and snacks.

Life seems to be one constant snack now. My sister's and I were just given a biscuit at 11 am and actually it didn't occur to us to ask for anything else because the answer would have been no. I think we probably were hungry sometimes but we just got on with it. We were a LITTLE hungry, not being starved or ill treated. We have all - adults and children forgotten what it actually does feel like to be hungry. We snack because so much food is on offer and for some reason parents especially seem to feel guilty if their children complain of hunger.

I agree with ICB, small children can/should self regulate calorie intake. We do exactly what she described; no food restriction and no insistence on eating/ finishing portions.

DD was BLW and she eats as much or as little as she wants. It's actually curious to see her gravitate towards carbs some days, protein others and just vegetables or dairy on other occasions.

Equally she'll eat a lot some days and very little on other occasions. She's on the 98% for height and weight and yet we can see her ribs.

Is being able to see ribs some sort of indicator over child obesity? Seen it mentioned here a few times now